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Old 10-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #1
GoGrind
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AJs in position vs 2 villains

Hi Guys I would like some feedback on a hand that I recently played at a 200NL table. Thanks in advance!

I was holding A J in MP2.
UTG +1 raises to $6.
MP1 calls.
I call.
UTG calls.

The flop comes: 6 J 9

UTG bets $15. UTG+1 calls. MP1 folds and I call.

The turn brings a 4

UTG bets $30. UTG+1 calls and I call.

The river brings a T

It goes check check check.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:26 PM   #2
SurfinPanda
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

What's your stack? I think you can bet river hoping to get called by KJ or QJ. When they both check to you on river I think you really good here the majority of time.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:46 AM   #3
matzah_ball
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Reads would help.

Flop is very wet and the preflop raiser has decided to just call. Looks like TPTK is good here, so I'd raise to $60.

As played, raise turn.

As played, bet river. We have the best hand here about 100% of the time.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:35 AM   #4
StillLearnin
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Imho all fine. (Raising the turn has merit but i think they re going to call and will inflate pot with only TP) i much prefer checking it down here. Not sure how much and often you will get called otr if bet.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:42 PM   #5
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by SurfinPanda View Post
What's your stack? I think you can bet river hoping to get called by KJ or QJ. When they both check to you on river I think you really good here the majority of time.
We are all deep (200BB).
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by matzah_ball View Post
Reads would help.

Flop is very wet and the preflop raiser has decided to just call. Looks like TPTK is good here, so I'd raise to $60.

As played, raise turn.

As played, bet river. We have the best hand here about 100% of the time.
I checked the turn for pot control. Villain's range is wide even from EP so I opted to check the river in case he spiked 2 pair.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:49 PM   #7
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by StillLearnin View Post
Imho all fine. (Raising the turn has merit but i think they re going to call and will inflate pot with only TP) i much prefer checking it down here. Not sure how much and often you will get called otr if bet.
I checked the river mainly because the T brought a straight possibility so I felt like I am only getting called by a straight or 2 pair at least in this spot.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

UTG leads the action OTR, he is not checking if he's binked two pair or a straight. Similarly once UTG checks, UTG+1 is value betting them too. You don't really have to worry about much and can b/f river for value.
It really looks like you have the best hand here and can expect a call from KJ/QJ much more than V's will blow you off your hand/have better.

UTG may have an overpair but without reads it's probable he bets river with it even vs 2 guys.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:26 PM   #9
IamaNooblet
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Even if we are deep I think we should be betting river unless either Villain is going to check raise bluff which is highly doubtful. If either Villain has a straight they would be betting here almost 100% of the time, checking with hopes of check raising and getting paid off is extremely unlikely. Value bet river.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:32 PM   #10
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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UTG leads the action OTR, he is not checking if he's binked two pair or a straight. Similarly once UTG checks, UTG+1 is value betting them too. You don't really have to worry about much and can b/f river for value.
It really looks like you have the best hand here and can expect a call from KJ/QJ much more than V's will blow you off your hand/have better.

UTG may have an overpair but without reads it's probable he bets river with it even vs 2 guys.
That could be true most of the time. UTG+1 shows 6 4 for 2 pair.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:42 PM   #11
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by IamaNooblet View Post
Even if we are deep I think we should be betting river unless either Villain is going to check raise bluff which is highly doubtful. If either Villain has a straight they would be betting here almost 100% of the time, checking with hopes of check raising and getting paid off is extremely unlikely. Value bet river.
After reviewing the hand I feel like I am ahead almost 100% of the time. I guess it just happened that after I check, UTG +1 showed 6 4 for 2 pair.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:52 PM   #12
IamaNooblet
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Two pair combos plus I suppose maybe a really scared QQ or KK shows up here.... Idk. I like raising the flop against a lot of opponents here because if they are so tight that they can't ever have KJ or TT and pay us off here we shouldn't be in this pot. IMO
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:07 PM   #13
IrunDET
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Maybe i'm just a bit more aggro, calling is fine, but i also like to be in the lead, especially deep as you say (200bb).

Based on opponents pre-raise size, $6, which is pretty small for live games at FR 200NL, i'm thinking he's already not that strong of a player and his range is fairly wide. He gets flatted by the guy next to me and I have a decent playing hand.

I'm raising pre to like $25. It's a good spot to squeeze and vary your play a bit this deep.

As played, you're biggest mistake imho is not raising the flop. If I stick with my read of a wider-ish range on a bet size tell, UTG donks $15, a weakish bet, into $27 on a wet board into 3 opponents. I'm not convinced. He naturally get's flatted by the OR who is still wide.

I see no reason not to raise for value this deep and it makes decisions much easier post.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:18 PM   #14
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Looks great pre, flop, and turn. Only mistake is not betting the river.

In your post title, you said you're in position. You are. So use it. When you're in position, you get to make good decisions, like betting for value when checked to and when villains are likely to have second best made hands.

Plenty of worse hands in ranges, Jx, of course, Tx that had straight draws and could station a pair, and who knows what else.

Not sure what your stack size is, but you could shove if you have less than a pot sized bet. If you're very deep here, you should definitely bet/fold.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:10 AM   #15
d_saxton
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Agree with previous poster. Once it's checked to you you have a near-nut hand. If the original raiser check-calls with Q-Q or something then that's pretty unlucky, but you can at least be glad you're at a table with someone like this.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:33 AM   #16
matzah_ball
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

Don't worry about the results; they're just bizarre.

I really think the flop is the place to raise though. The preflop raiser just flats the initial, meaning he probably can't beat TPTK, and the initial bettor flatted pre-flop, so his hand range is very wide (we're ahead of most of it). The flop is super wet: we can get value from many draws and weaker Jx.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:02 PM   #17
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by IrunDET View Post
Maybe i'm just a bit more aggro, calling is fine, but i also like to be in the lead, especially deep as you say (200bb).

Based on opponents pre-raise size, $6, which is pretty small for live games at FR 200NL, i'm thinking he's already not that strong of a player and his range is fairly wide. He gets flatted by the guy next to me and I have a decent playing hand.

I'm raising pre to like $25. It's a good spot to squeeze and vary your play a bit this deep.

As played, you're biggest mistake imho is not raising the flop. If I stick with my read of a wider-ish range on a bet size tell, UTG donks $15, a weakish bet, into $27 on a wet board into 3 opponents. I'm not convinced. He naturally get's flatted by the OR who is still wide.

I see no reason not to raise for value this deep and it makes decisions much easier post.
You know as soon as I checked the river and villain showed 2 pair I knew that I should have raised the flop. This would have forced pre-flop raiser to fold his junk and I would have played the hand heads up against UTG since he doesn't fold and would pay me off with QJ KJ on 3 betting streets.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:04 PM   #18
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by Willyoman View Post
Looks great pre, flop, and turn. Only mistake is not betting the river.

In your post title, you said you're in position. You are. So use it. When you're in position, you get to make good decisions, like betting for value when checked to and when villains are likely to have second best made hands.

Plenty of worse hands in ranges, Jx, of course, Tx that had straight draws and could station a pair, and who knows what else.

Not sure what your stack size is, but you could shove if you have less than a pot sized bet. If you're very deep here, you should definitely bet/fold.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:10 PM   #19
GoGrind
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Re: AJs in position vs 2 villains

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Originally Posted by matzah_ball View Post
Don't worry about the results; they're just bizarre.

I really think the flop is the place to raise though. The preflop raiser just flats the initial, meaning he probably can't beat TPTK, and the initial bettor flatted pre-flop, so his hand range is very wide (we're ahead of most of it). The flop is super wet: we can get value from many draws and weaker Jx.
Yeah I knew I should have raised the flop. Thanks for the feedback
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