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AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead

09-28-2014 , 11:51 AM
1/3 at Horseshoe in Baltimore. Overall game has been more tight passive than I expected with open raises to about 4x and pretty straight forward weak tight play post.

Villain 1- Looks to be a mid 40s reg; not tight nit type but more along the lines of standard tag.
Villain 2- Older guy, has only played a couple of hands and seems to have played very passive post.
Hero image- somewhat loose due run of cards; have been straddling the button and raising most of the time with the pretty weak tight table, has been noticed

Hero- $700
Villain 1- $900
Villain 2- $150
Villain 2 opens for $10 (10 to 12 was standard open) from early MP. Hero calls with AJhh from the CO, villain 1 flats from the SB.

Flop ($33)- Jc, 5s, 4s
Villain 1 leads for $20, Villain 2 (OR) flats, Hero?

Feel I can see legitimate reasons for raise or call. Thoughts?
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:11 PM
I'd pop it, $20 into $40 is weakness and so is the flat, take it down right there.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:12 PM
Don't like a raise but I call here for sure.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
I'd pop it, $20 into $40 is weakness and so is the flat, take it down right there.
Take it down right here with a strong hand when we are being shown weakness?
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:33 PM
Raise it to 70 or 75. If OR had an overpair, he would raise or shove here. Villain 1 probably has a weaker J (KJ/QJ/JT) or he's on a flush draw.

If after you raise, Villain 1 comes over the top, it's time to let it go. But my guess is he would flat call.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:40 PM
I agree that hero is never folding here. Call or raise is a bit of tough decision though. Neither villain here has shown strength or weakness here. V1's donk into the pfr is nearly 2/3 the pot and doesn't look like a weak draw trying to set a cheap price. Also, you don't describe V1 as real bad or a villain who donks a lot, so his range here probably doesn't include weak JX hands, if he has one pair it's probably AJ/KJ or JX flush draw. V2's flat indicates he has something but if he is passive, it could be an over pair, JX or a flush draw.

My inclination here is to flat and see what happens on the turn. I don't think raising is terrible, but without a better read on ranges for villains, I don't like inflating this pot. One factor in that is V2 having a small enough stack that raising will commit hero against V2.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-28-2014 , 12:40 PM
V1's lead is primarily indicative of combos draws and worse J's, possibly sets, two pair and possibly (but unlikely) QQ. A rang we are combinatorically ahead of.

V2's flat is as weak as AKo and as strong as AA.

Flatting here sucks because we're ahead of their combined ranges on a wet board, but raising bloats the pot and narrows their continuing range to hands that beat us or we're flipping against.

V2's stack is difficult to maneuver against, any raise commits us against it, and in order to continue with our line OTT we would have to further bloat the pot to charge V1's draws.

While it feels weak due to myriad scare cards that can come and seemingly cripple our TPTK, flatting with a plan to pot control and reevaluate OTT and OTR is the best line IMO.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-29-2014 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheers4Booze
While it feels weak due to myriad scare cards that can come and seemingly cripple our TPTK, flatting with a plan to pot control and reevaluate OTT and OTR is the best line IMO.
Its great to read all these responses! While my first inclination would have been to raise into what appears to be weakness (and is probably what I would have done in this spot), I feel like Cheers4Booze makes a great point about pot controlling here and reevaluating OTT and OTR especially considering stack size of V2.
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote
09-29-2014 , 12:12 PM
Pretty easy fold for me preflop. An old guy who hasn't played many hands puts in a decent percentage of his stack preflop in EP; our hand doesn't fare well against his range at all. If we were going to go very multiway to this flop, then I'd flat and ~nutmine, but this doesn't seem to be that table.

Also pretty easy fold on the flop for me as well. What are we putting tight guy on (especially one that can be passive postflop) when he calls the flop? A high? TT? He probably still has us crushed, and there's still the donker to worry about.

ETA: No ones finds a fold button on either street here? Although I will admit that if we're calling preflop then we probably shouldn't be folding postflop as easily, although I believe this action does make it easier to do so.

GfoldingmywaytovictoryG
AJ, flop top pair vs. donk lead Quote

      
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