The game: 1/3 blinds with a max bet of 300 live

I bought in for 300 (max) and have increase my stack to just over $1,000

I look down at Ac 10c UTG +3 with 2 limpers in from off me and raise it to $15. The guy to my immediate left calls (loose calling range), button calls (tight calling range), and one limper calls (he's a donkey limping UTG in the first place).

Flop comes: As Kc 6c

I flop top pair with the nut flush draw. Checked around to me, I check and the button bets $25. Limper folds and I make it $110. Its folded to the button and he thinks for a minute or 2 and calls.

Turn is a 2d. Button thinks for 2 more mins and then puts out a $20 bet into a $300 pot.

I can either call here or raise. His $20 bet is suspicious and looks like he is trying to keep the pot small. I choose to raise to $200 total.

What would you have done in this spot?

Bet the flop instead of X/R. Your chance at making big money in this hand is to have someone who has a weaker FD call and think they are going crush you when you obviously can't let go of your TP hand.

Did hero check the turn after check raising the flop?

How much does villain have in his stack?

Just lead the flop. Checkraise is overplaying your hand, you're going to end up making him fold weak stuff that you're crushing and getting stacked when someone has A6 or a set of sixes.

As played, why did you apparently check the turn? Button's $20 bet is bizarre. If he was trying to keep the pot small, he'd check. My guess is he has something very strong, because when people do strange things it's often because they're very strong and don't know what to do. But I don't really know.

Preflop is best folded. ATs isn't strong enough to open raise 2 limpers from EP. You raised preflop so you should usually lead this flop but it isn't a huge issue.

Turn is very weird and it isn't clear what villain is doing. Without a read on villain there is a significant risk they are trying to bait you into raising. Villain is giving you the straight odds to call and it's probably best if you take it.

There is nothing more annoying about this place than people giving incorrect advice that is based on nothing but their own personal preference.

ATs is NOT best folded preflop here. Just because YOU fold preflop doesnt make it best. IMO it makes you too tight, but I wouldn't give that advice. Why? Because folding, over limping or raising in this spot are all fine. Its just personal preference, playing style and table dependent.

I fancy myself pretty nitty but I am not folding AT suited after 2 limps, pretty much ever. I would usually join in the limp fest and hope for things like dominating draws and flopping a T against KT, QT, JT and 9T.

As played, I bet the flop for maybe $25. We have great equity, but just a decent hand at the moment. There are all kinds of crappy hands I want to come along as they will be drawing slim, but we aren't targeting someone for a cooler yet.


I'm not check raising the button as he is the scariest player, given his tight preflop range. A tight 1/3 player can easily have AK here, 66 and sometimes even KK. There are 2 combos of A6 suited if he decided to gamble on the button. It's no guarantee at all that we can make him fold AQ. So that leaves AJ only as a real bluff target. And getting shoved on is pretty bad.

If the turn is check, bet $20, that is pretty weird, but I guess I'd just call. There's no reason to think he is folding a better hand now.

All options pre are valid IMO. I would usually raise pre, but limping is fine sometimes too if you expect to get a bunch of callers, and folding can't be a big mistake.

I would definitely lead out here, both with and without the flush draw. check raising would tend to fold out worse and get called/shoved on by better. Would prefer check raise with something like QJcc, which wants more folds.

Obviously always opening this hand assuming utg+3 is LJ, make it 20 pre after a couple of limpers

Bet flop or check call, c/r seems bad. As played c/c turn is good, c/r once again is bad

I appreciate the advice. In hindsight, I should have either led the flop and called a raise, or check called his bet. I should have flat called his $20 and say a cheap river.

He had AK, top 2 pair and shoved for his remaining $200 after I raised him.

Guess I learned $515 lesson

We're still confused about what happened on the turn. Did hero check to the button after check-raising him on the flop?

Fwiw, Top-pair and a flush draw with the chance to make top 2 pair is a monster. Top pair and a flush draw with a chance to make top and middle pair is not as good.

Even though it's suited? Isn't it safe to assume that almost always, the limpers are NOT going to have AJ+?
If we use the best case scenario for one of the remaining 6 players to have a bigger ace & give both limpers & the one who folded cards that didn't have an ace or J+, that leaves 44 cards in the deck for the last 6 players to be dealt AJ+ with.

So, you've got [6 players * 3 aces]/44 cards = 40.91% of being dealt an ace
and then if only 1 player gets an ace, he has 14/43 = 32.56% chance of being dealt JJ-AA for his 2nd card. However, that's only if none of the other 5 was dealt a JJ-AA.

.4091 * .3256 = 13.32% chance of being dealt a bigger ace or AA.

Now this is a crude estimate, but too much math doing it correctly and then there's the possibility of a player being dealt TT+

Now I'm no math whiz, but if my crude estimate is close, and you take into consideration the possibility of a player left to act having TT+, I am calling UTG+3 with ATs & hoping for a multi-way pot cheap. Always folding ATo.

In EP I typically play ATs fairly passively; it's a much more speculative hand than you realize, imo. I would have overlimped.

I'm assuming Villain is also $1K deep?

I find that most players overplay TP+nutflushdraw. If any serious money starts going into the pot on early streets, we're typically not in very good shape and often a huge dog with just a flush draw. And at the same time we have a showdownable hand that is strong enough that it doesn't exactly want to bluff anyone out (unlike, for example, bottom pair + flush draw, which played aggressively can fold out bigger pairs). With big stacks where we are no where near commitment decisions, I would probably just bet smallish (say 1/2 PSB) and start going for value against weaker Ax (although at a lot of tables our preflop raise has eliminated weaker Ax), and give us lots of room to call a raise. I think we overplayed our hand on the flop.

I have zero clue what is going in on the turn but thanks to overplaying our hand both preflop and on the flop the pot is incredibly huge for such a mediocre hand at this point. I'd hate to get blown off my flush draw. A tight guy just called a preflop raise and a flop check/raise; warning bells should be going off all over the place. I just take our great price and see what happens on the river.

As played, if Villain calls, we'll have created a *massive* $700 pot with just a PSB left and all we have at this point is TPmehK. If he reraises (likely a shove with these stack sizes), we'll have to fold our nut draw. Yuck on both counts, imo.

ETA: FWIW (and no offence intended OP), based on how OP terribly overplayed his hand postflop, he should be snap folding ATs in EP and it's not remotely close.

GcluelessNLnoobG

ATs pre even with two limpers ahead, I prefer raise so that you clearly know the limpers range once they call or limp-reraise. Also, you of course would pay less to see the flop if some one in late position squeeze after you overlimp. I like the preflop play.

Flop I would 100% bet here, V is most like raise you with 2p+ hand as there are few people act behind him. So you know better for V's range. I feel V could have A6s/66/QJcc/QTcc as flop played.

Turn, as played, I don't think V would bet $20 in the pot with QJcc/QTcc, so more likely A6s/66. You could rep AA/KK/AK in this hand. V's stack is quit important info here. I think call or raise the turn are 2 options really depends, if V is very deep stack, and you believe he is capable to fold a bottom set, you can turn your hand into bluff. Otherwise call.

If you hit the flush on the river, please make value bet, don't check there.

I screwed up the hand analysis and am unable to edit it. I raised from the hijack and the villain called from the small blind. It got checked around to the button on the flop who bet $25. The villain called.

OK, when SB's action on the flop is check/call 25/call check raise to 110, and he leads out 20 into 300 on the turn we can pretty much narrow his range to:

QcJc, AK(9 combos), 66 (3 combos), Ah6h,Ad6d
15 combos total

One of those combos we are a long way ahead of and the others are crushing us.

Unless hero has been playing like a maniac with almost any two cards or villain is a major fish, I don't think he gets to the turn with AQ or AJ often at all.

Just call the turn. About 19.6% of the time, you'll hit a flush and villain will pay off a bet of about 190 into 340. If you hit the flush and he leads the river you can raise pot or jam.

What is the point in raising, looking to see if one of the EP limpers are trapping with a big hand they're looking to c/r with? You would now have to fold, or are you going to pay a premium price to try & hit the flop hard with a weaker hand?

I don't understand. Are you saying you would raise, say to $15, then when LP player squeezes to say $45 & EP doesn't 4! you get to see the flop cheaper? Or, are you saying after EP 4! to say $90 [after LP squeezes to $45], you get to fold & get out cheaply, i.e., for only $15?

I agree with almost all of your post but it is extremely unlikely villain has QcTc here.

Yes, you are right, I made the mistake here.

let's say we overlimped, and some one behind us with good hand but not super strong such as AQ/AJ/KQs/TT/99/88 decide to raise, it normally would go $20 or above. If we decide to raise $15, people don't 3bet a lot these hands in 1-3 game which actually reduced our price to see a flop.

His bet size is suspicious because he is basically BEGGING you to check raise again.

This villain actually donked 20 into 300 on the turn from the small blind.