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Old 10-03-2018, 12:30 AM   #1
dellerrrr
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Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

So one of my good friends still occasionally plays 1/2, 1/3 back home. Me and him have played in the same home game since we were 16 years old and he was always one of the better players in the mega soft game. He has never played online whereas I still play online to some degree every other week or so.

Every other week it feels like I will get a text like this "I am never lucky listen to this beat last night" -he will then go on to relay by saying he was down to $100 and raised to $12 in MP w/ 4h5h and got 4 callers. I try to explain that he simply can not open that with that stack in that game, but he always tries to justify it with implied odds, etc. Or some "coolers" against certain players where folding top pair or TT, JJ, QQ, pre is relatively easy.

I know he knows that I am the most winning player in our friend group so I would like to believe that he could take away some advice but he always chalks it up to bad beats or coolers or etc. Has anyone else experienced a friend like this? How have you approached it? Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:41 AM   #2
Randal_Graves
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

I know people like this. They don’t listen to advice so you just listen to their BS, let it go in one ear and out the other and minimize interaction with them as much as possible. If they insist just point them in the direction of a subscription based training website and let them learn the old fashioned way.
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:51 AM   #3
onguard
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

If he isnt gambling with money he cant afford to lose just let it go. Discussing bad strat and complaining about luck is entertainment for some. Most players lose it is what it is.

If he's sending his kids to school without lunch money or asking you about going pro youve got to make some choices and evaluations. If hes just one of the 99% of gamblers who rate to lose money theres no reason to make a thing of it and doing so rates to lose you a friend.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:43 AM   #4
JungleBasas
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Does this friend track his sessions? If you really feel the need to tell him, that's where I'd start.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:06 AM   #5
branch0095
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Just tell him "we've been friends a long time, you're my boy, but every supposed bad beat story you tell me involves you butchering a hand in some fashion. It's fine that you don't see it or care to take advice on how to stop putting yourself in these situations, but please don't tell me about anymore of your poker stories because they truly make me cringe........ you're still my boy though." Lol
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:04 AM   #6
mrdestiny
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

There are no friends in poker m8, join him to his next casino trip and take a seat on his left and exploit him to the max. Should be easy as you know the mistakes he will be making. Bonus: you will have atleast one person you can have friendly banter with at the tables.
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:33 AM   #7
Petrucci
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Ive met countless delusional players through the years, and my experience/opinion is that like 98 percent of those people wants to continue living in their delusional world. Its alot easier and alot more convinient to just create x amount of excuses when the results doesent go their way year after year- compared to realizing that they arent as good at poker as they tell themself. They simply dont want to face the reality, that they are a losing player or a fish at the poker tables.

Just as Randal said i let their talking/excuses/BS go in the one ear and straight out the other. Unless they are amongst very few that is able to actually listen to what i say, then i can give them couple of pointers to their biggest leaks, or what areas of their game that needs some pimping.
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:36 AM   #8
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

While not a strategy thread per se, it is a decent topic to talk about, so I'm going to leave it open for a while.

One starts by wondering why 10 people gather around a table when the reality is only 2-3 of them can make any money over time and only one is going to make good money. I believe that it is due to the essential paradox of poker: Poker attracts people who want a relaxed lifestyle with minimal rules to follow. To be successful at poker long term, you have to be highly disciplined and continue to work on improving.

All long term poker players have some level of gambling addiction. Poker is horribly boring if the gambling aspect wasn't involved. I can watch football games with no money at stake. Would anyone watch poker if the money was returned after every session?

Finally, most people don't want to look at themselves realistically. Some will admit they are just there for the gamble and know they'll lose over time. Most need something else to blame for their losses. Luck is the easiest thing to blame. The OP's friend is one of these people. As suggested above, just let their comments pass by and don't offer any advice. They don't want it and aren't discliplined enough to use it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:11 AM   #9
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdestiny View Post
There are no friends in poker m8, join him to his next casino trip and take a seat on his left and exploit him to the max. Should be easy as you know the mistakes he will be making. Bonus: you will have atleast one person you can have friendly banter with at the tables.
SMH
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:25 AM   #10
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
SMH


SMH?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:44 AM   #11
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Quote:
SMH?
Shaking My Head.

I call people like this "askholes." They ask for advice, but when you give it they just give excuses about why it doesn't apply. I've given up on trying to help such people.

I disagree about the gambling addiction point, though. For me, poker is about competition much more than gambling. I'd happily play just as a game with no money involved if my opponents would take it just as seriously. The reason I like to play for money is that it play money poker becomes a silly luck game instead of a competition.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:58 AM   #12
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

The SMH was meant for the guy who wants to sit at his "friends" table and "exploit him to the max". Come on! Some people have no morals. You have a friend who is asking for advice and you want to use that info against him to "sit on his left and exploit him to the max"?

He probably also thinks its OK to put naked pics of his ex-girlfriend on the internet after they break up. SMH
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:12 AM   #13
weiskoda
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

As one poster alluded to, my advice would be for him to track his sessions and make his own judgment over time about how he's doing. Tracking results forces self reflection and brutal honesty. I've been tracking my sessions for a little over a year, and it's been super helpful. I can filter on time of day/day of week/casino/1-2/1-3/2-5/buy in amount and see whether I do better in certain circumstances than others. My sample size is likely too small but over time it will obviously increase and I can make sounder inferences from the data.

I do my tracking in Excel (fairly old school) but I understand there's software that can be used.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:19 AM   #14
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Get him to track at least 200 hours of live play. Every time he sits down on a 1/2 NL table, he should record the hours played and profit.

If he's not at least breakeven after 200hrs at a 1/2 live table, then he's a fish.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:48 AM   #15
gobbledygeek
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

If he's a good friend who's gambooling money he can't afford to lose, then just try your best to really turn him on to the reality of the situation (which will likely be difficult, but if he's a good friend with a dangerous problem then it's worth it).

If he's gambooling with money he can afford to lose, whatever. If he's not willing to listen, just smile and nod and commiserate I guess.

GgoodluckG
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:58 AM   #16
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Tell him to start posting hands here
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #17
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

I have a very good friend who used to crush online. Absolutely crush:

Then live poker rooms in Philadelphia opened in 2010 and he hasnít been a winner since. He moved to Florida two years ago and still loses.

I think he is a solid player and he is just snake bitten. Iíve told him to just play when he wants to have fun.

Just continue to be honest with him. Point out his mistakes and wish him luck.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:17 PM   #18
johnnyBuz
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

I’ve got a friend like this. He’s a “good player” but not a winning player because he constantly spews in dumb spots even though he’s technically solid and better than most players. He’s always asking me to stake him and I just tell him he’s not good enough. Just be honest. If he gets butt hurt than he doesn’t have the mental capacity to be a winning player anyway.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:29 PM   #19
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdestiny View Post
There are no friends in poker m8, join him to his next casino trip and take a seat on his left and exploit him to the max. Should be easy as you know the mistakes he will be making. Bonus: you will have atleast one person you can have friendly banter with at the tables.
mrdestiny why don't you just tell him how your friends broke it to you
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:44 PM   #20
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

If you can persuade him to track his hours and results, you won't have to say anything.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:45 PM   #21
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

I've had friends like this. I tell them "that was a ****ty raise with 5h4h, your cards are too low" but in my experience they usually agree with me. But since they're gambolers or just passive in general they keep doing the same bad stuff. First time they complain about a hand i say what they did wrong, then after that I just cycle through "damn" and "i dunno man" and "i hear ya" type stuff. Nobody's perfect but if he's your friend you should probably let it slide. Some people just can't be helped.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:43 PM   #22
dellerrrr
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Really decent feedback here.
-Some more background is he is one of my best friends if not my best; in the sense if I get married in the near future he would be my best man.

- He has a stable 45k salary job I believe with tax breaks, does not have a girlfriend or kids, we are both in our young 20s.
- I think a big part of the issue is growing up in our friend groups he was probably the second best player behind me so he used to crush that game. I think a lot of what he did in that game he thinks is going to work in a casino 1/3 game.
- I will suggest he start tracking his results, just seems between the bi-weekly bad beat texts and his big loss on our Vegas Trip he chalks it up to short term variance. Maybe ill try to push him towards some help or 2p2 but he truly does love poker and has the mental capability to win.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:50 PM   #23
gobbledygeek
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Knowing that he's got a good job and no dependents and is only playing live 1/3 NL lolstakes (I mean, he can't lose *that* much money relative to his liferoll), I wouldn't care too much. If you wanna be a HH buddy with him or whatever, fine, but I wouldn't stress if decides to play his own way.

Gnobigdeal,imoG
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:03 PM   #24
tmo1120
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

I feel like with a lot of these hard learned lessons time will teach people eventually; you can't lie to yourself forever as a poker player, the results should eventually be telling you something; all you can do is give him solid suggestions like read poker books, go on forums, be humble etc. ; it probably is difficult to put in off table work with a full time job and put in volume so I can't say I can relate to that but sounds like he has to adjust from the transition of home game play to casino play which isn't always so easy if you used to be winning. I feel like you could crush home games sometimes with barely any understanding of the fundamentals and this causes a big issue down the road
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:29 PM   #25
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Re: Advice on telling a friend he is a losing player ?

Don't ever tell him. Continue to be his friend, and continue to try and sit on his direct left, telling him it's because "he's a tough player and you don't like having him on your right".
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