Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2016, 07:27 PM   #26
luvthegame
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 389
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

I would caution against opening up your game at this point and fine tune your ABC game to up your win rate.

Definitely work on your bluffs, you have to be able to confidently three barrel the bluffs in situations that call for it. One of the big profit plays for LAGs is to float the TAG bets to the river and then bet big or shove if the TAG slows down (checks), knowing that it indicates weakness and can easily be pressured with a big bet.

If LAGs are running over you, it usually indicates your reads aren't very strong. Most LAGs at 1/2 bet in very clear patterns that are easy to read and turn their cards face-up for you. Watch betting patterns on hands you are not in and notice whether strong is weak (normal) or strong is strong. Might change by position or opponent, but usually not in 1/2. Most of your money should come from LAGs, who don't know when to stop betting against you when you have a hand.

Notice when a bet means: "I want you to call and stay in the hand" as opposed to: "I am overbetting the pot to make you fold because I have nothing." Again, most LAGs at 1/2 bet this way consistently. Read the difference and know what the bets mean.
luvthegame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 08:16 PM   #27
LordRiverRat
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,513
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

Grunch. So you limp behind AQo/AJs? Raise those you nit!
LordRiverRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 09:49 PM   #28
BadlyBeaten
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,303
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97 View Post
I'm sitting mid position with say 44... You're saying that it's a raise/fold decision?
For a player with a tight image, the benefits of raising are enormous. Not the least, it helps you better understand the styles and strategies that you're up against. You'll know when you're becoming spewy, and you'll learn about opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise.
BadlyBeaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 10:40 PM   #29
Garick
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,295
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97 View Post
This is interesting because it wasn't said by others. Basically need to open up my EP range, and never overlimp. Do others agree? I'm sitting mid position with say 44 and big stack and a couple of early limpers, at loose passive table, I would usually limp. You're saying that it's a raise/fold decision?
Totally disagree with Badly Beaten here. 1/2 players tend to be pay-off wizards. The value of set mining in multi-way pots can be yuge.

If we have deep effective stacks, or a tighter post-flop table such that you'll have trouble getting something like As5s to stack off on an A45cc board, then I'd raise 44 pre, but I don't see the point at 100BB effective when a raise will get called in 3+ spots and you could have got stacks in anyway if you hit.
Garick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 06:19 AM   #30
BadlyBeaten
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,303
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

#1 I didn't create the 44 scenario nor did I make any recommendation. It's highly hero/villain dependent. It may be highly personal to me that a passive play like set mining tends to "leak" passivity into other parts of my game.

#2 Yes, raising does lower the implied odds percentage, but there isn't much else bad that raising does. The argument and mathematical proof that you will lose money in the long run without proper implied odds is highly abstract. I.e. it omits any possibility that the money you lose in the long run is paying for something else besides the immediately relevant pots.

#3 At the game I joined Sunday, there were several players with 100bb effective or less. But there were also 2 players with about 300bb and one with about 500bb. The implied odds argument is very circumstantial as well as abstract.

#4 You can use the same implied odds argument to prove that cold calling with 44 in that situation would be bad as well. But it just isn't necessarily so.

Of course I'm not claiming to prove that one should raise to 12 behind limpers in MP with 44. But the game has changed significantly over the past 20 years or so, and IMO it's very important that your PF play be extremely well balanced. If your PF bet sizing can be a strong indicator of your post-flop hand strength, you're giving up quite a bit, IMO.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 01-26-2016 at 06:32 AM.
BadlyBeaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 08:12 AM   #31
Ragequit99
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 2,575
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

I do agree that even the bad players tend to recognise that limping behind indicates a speculative hand and when you then get aggro postflop they get out the way more frequently than their fishiness should dictate and certainly more often than they do in raised pots.

I've even taken to limping behind in order to steal orphan pots postflop in some games. It seems absurd but you find spots where the same players will call your raise MW and then get sticky postflop (because they invested pre and don't understand sunk costs?) and yet the very same players will limp in MW and then fold flop to my big donk bet from the SB or it checks to me in LP and I make a tiny bet and they all go away like "I see what you're doing there with your weird two-pair, I'm off." Not a regular thing, just something I've been playing around with because it amuses me more than adds EV.

Anyway, I digress, I do agree with having somewhat balanced ranges preflop and have switched to isolating more frequently and limping behind much less frequently. Seems to be working for me at the moment.
Ragequit99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 08:58 AM   #32
Garick
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,295
Re: Advice to MAWG TAG ABC Player

I'm definitely not saying always limp. I'm just saying that I disagree with "never limp."

Quote:
IMO it's very important that your PF play be extremely well balanced.
This is very villain/game dependent, but I generally find it not to be true for the majority of Vs in non Vegas/CT 1/2 games.
Garick is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive