I feel like I am solid at doing the opposite of this. For example, we're in MP with J7s/97s/54s/33 and we open because HJ-BTN are all NITs. I feel very comfortable in those fortunate situations where the players to our left are tight and to the right are loose.

However, when I'm unable to get such a fortunate seat and am stuck with one or more loose players directly to my left I struggle with how to properly adjust my ranges pre.

For example, if we're in MP and HJ-BTN are all pretty damn loose players, do we open or fold hands like AJo, KTs, J9s, A2s, 77, etc? Is there a rule of thumb that you feel helps to guide us to what exactly we should be opening where?

Loose passive (call your open) or loose aggressive (3 bet your open)?

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Primarily LP, but curious about LAG as well

LP I wouldn't really change much about your normal style other than probably sizing up on your opens, as LP tends to play fot or fold. LAGs, tighten your opening range and loosen your continuing range. LAGs on your left also become prime targets for an occasional limp/re-raise.

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My usual size is $10 + BB/limper. I feel like it would not be profitable to play a hand like KTs OOP 4 ways+. With these players should we go $12 + BB/limper, or should we go even bigger? I struggle with these sizings.

It sounds like you're in one of those games where people wanna see a flop or they don't, a small variance in bet size isn't going to deter them. If you can't iso with that size bet, then I would lean towards fold pre. You're just bloating a pot pre with a mediocre hand oop making post flop play unnecessarily difficult.

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So you'd just eliminate the bottom of our baseline range from each position?

This is correct

Depending on table:

1) Limp call more (pending other callers/hand). Agree that increase sizing won't get folds from these players.
2) Trap with monsters more depending on their raising frequency
3) Move seats
4) Move tables

For me it boils down to whether the loose players behind us are good players versus bad players.

If they are good players, I mostly just fold (speculative hands OOP against good players are highly unlikely to be profitable).

If they are poor players (plus assuming passive so unlikely we'll face a raise), I mostly open limp (which I notice you don't think is an option?). I limp in encouraging them to get into a cheap pot with me (where a bunch of these hands are fine with seeing a cheap multiway flop). If someone raises, I'll reevaluate (mostly fold, especially if ending up HU OOP) and I lose 1bb (big deal, next hand). And meanwhile I don't bloat pots OOP with speculative hands with little FE.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Open limping is something I 100% cut out of my game 1.5-2 years ago, and the reason I never added it back in was because my win rate grew as a direct result.

First one in, I just don't see limping as an option. My hands come pretty face up when I'm doing that, we frequently have to just fold, we'll inevitably get exploited, etc

Open limping a hand like K10 on these types of tables sucks. The described players limp behind with KJ/KQ and often AK. You just find yourself in a cheap pot with the same lack of information as if you raised pre and they all came along for the ride. Just fold pre if you can't get in with a distinct range advantage.

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It baffles me how people can somehow consider getting into a pot for lol 1bb against possibly (???) bad opponents to be horrible.

Having said that, I am a pretty tight player and so from MP I'm mostly folding speculative hands OOP at aggro tables without complete morons behind me. But give me a passive table with morons, I'd be limping in with lottsa speculative hands (especially ones that have higher IO than RIO, such as Axs, 77, etc.).

GcluelessbafflednoobG

Is this supposed to be an argument for raising?

GcuzitlookslikeanargumentforlimpingG

You definitely get more information about our opponents' hands when they call a raise vs overlimp. Calling ranges vs an open raise are significantly tighter. Yes, this also applies to fish (who will overlimp any two but will only call a raise with hands that are *reasonable*)

So we're raising speculative hands to narrow the hands that are calling behind us to better?

We're not allowed to limp in 1bb as a 3:1 dog (in the worse-ish dominated case) in order to possibly attempt to play for the remaining 99bb stacks as a big fave if we flop well (and simply let TP go fairly easily postflop in a meaningless pot)?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Against loose passives, I would loosen up in EP, tighten up in LP. As in, don't try stealing with T5s from the button cuz you'll get two callers. You can play more hands in EP because if they're passive you'll see more flops which will let you grind out a bigger expected win rate. Playing KT OOP isn't the end of the world against bad players. Chances are they'll miss value when they have you out kicked, chase too much with weak draws and second pairs, etc.

LAGgy types you want a seat change. Failing that, tighten up your opening range, find out how they react to 4 bets, and construct a 4 bet range accordingly.

Whether you want to open limp or not probably depends on how good your table is. How often are people raising behind you? Will they call a $20 flop bet into a $10 pot just as easily as they will into a $40 pot? Are they aware that a field caller/limper probably has a stronger holding to be putting money in post flop than someone who raised pre?

Just because they might have a better hand than you preflop does not mean that they win the pot. More information about our opponent's ranges helps us to navigate post to generate folds and target hands for value. I can't tell you how many times I've raised a speculative hand pre, bet flop with air, and had people fold **** like AQ face up.

His issue is that the $10+ x per limper raise isn't doing anything other than bloating the pot.
It's not narrowing his opponents ranges, thus leaving him just as in the dark as if he limped. They're seeing a flop for any price other than the most extreme of raises, which are only going to be called/raised by the tip top of Vs ranges. The solution being to narrow your opening range to dominating hands that you can get value instead of playing bloated pot bingo with mediocre holdings versus a bunch of stations.

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Yeah, I think we're just talking about two different kinds of fish. LP fish that are fit or fold = fine to raise speculative hands. LP fish that are sticky = play tight and hope to hit a hand. I prefer playing against the first type of LP fish (the second type is just sooooo boring to play against).

I'm assuming with a few loose people behind us + the blinds that we're going to end up multiway with a raise, where I'm guessing we probably won't be (shouldn't be?) cbetting air.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Why adjust at all in either situation. Use what works and play less hands.