Last night 1/2 NL. I was at a table with all older guys, say 55-70ish, to my right. There were 4 of them and I think they were in WWII together.....anyway, they would NEVER raise. AA, KK, AK....nothing.

My question is, say I pick up AJ in late position. Usually I would not hesitate to raise, thinning the field and building a pot. But since they were limping in with such a wide range I felt like I was still in EP i.e I had no data and was up against a table full of ppl w a wide range. What to do?

I did okay. Nothing tragic happened. I ended up using my EP raising standards with my LP calling standard and didn't get in any trouble. But I was a little confused. I saw a few people go three streets and end up dominated.

Wondering if anyone has any insight on how to best handle, and hopefully exploit, this tendency.

Thanks all.

Sent from my DROID4 using 2+2 Forums

Do they not have a 3-betting range?
You just include premiums in their limp calling range.
Exploit it by limping scs etc and getting a nice dead pot when you raise your value hands.
Do they limp/fold a lot or limp call alot? I'm guessing the latter, you can definitely raise AJ for value in LP.

They were limp calling everything that was not 3bet or very large (20ish). Yeah, I guess I should look at it like raising from EP with a guaranteed _______ callers. I am still trying to learn how to adjust to the various game textures to maximize my earn. Thanks.

Sent from my DROID4 using 2+2 Forums

Learn to watch for post flop tendency.

awesome game.

Limp all your small pocket pairs and suited connectors, then go to value town when you hit. Raise with your monsters, solid hands and occasional bluffs. Versus one limper, I would raise your small pairs and suited connectors IP to give the appearance of a balanced range.

Play medium sized pots with your TP stuff if you might be dominated - they aren't going to be raising you post, so you can still control the action OOP.

EZ game.

yep

Change tables.

Or if you can't get a change, at least change seats so they're on you're left. Their pf calling ranges after you raise will be narrower than their limp/calling ranges (if they were on your right). And if you have a couple of non-retired guys at the table, you basically get the button 1) when you're the button 2) when the retired guys to your immediate left are the button.

Dream table is 4 drunks to your right, 2 OMC's to you're left so you have 3 buttons per orbit.

As for as post flop, they were a little nitty but not nuts-only nits. They didn't bet draws and never had the lead to c-bet. If they were calling someone they either had their range beat or were on a draw. I felt fine post flop. Really, I just kept feeling like I should be able to exploit them but didn't feel like I was.

Sent from my DROID4 using 2+2 Forums

Thanks. Yeah, this is largely what I did. I raised my small and med pairs but not my SCs (I wasn't playing deep enough, I didn't think, with so many callers and little fold equity) worked out well when I hit a set because AI was quite natural in a 60 dollar pot with 150 or 200 behind.

I guess I did okay then. Thanks for the insight.

Sent from my DROID4 using 2+2 Forums

Why would you move when they're posting a blind from every position? limp callers are so easy to beat.

^ It's not difficult lol, but what you can win is capped. I'd love to play an mtt against them (if I played mtt's) but in a cash game I want the tourist who golfed all day, drank all night, and now finds himself in the poker room. Or the chronic drunk.

I disagree, this is a very profitable table. You just have to understand how you're going to make your money. You're going to win lots of small pots with c bets and double barrels. Fold to their post flop aggression and enjoy taking down lots of small pots without putting your stack at risk.

^ I used to think like this. You'll get to a new level when you realize this thinking is wrong. The tables you're talking about are low profit but low variance (still a profit, just low). The tables I want are high profit, although a high variance.

You're playing in Vegas. Most of us don't have the luxury of moving to a table with a bunch of guys on vacation who golfed all day and are now drinking all night.

In any event, most of those guys OP is talking about aren't folding when they have TP if you have an aggressive / bluffy image, even though they will still fold to cbets when they have nothing. So if you can pocket a stack or two through the session, you are going to do pretty close to as well as you will with a single whale and 4-5 preying regs.

I'm not playing in Vegas lol.

But you guys are coming at me from 3 different ways.

The first guy who quoted me said he wouldn't change tables at all. He didn't say the drunk tables don't exist. His stance was the OMC table is the best of all time. And I said ideally that's false.

The second said the OMC tables are very profitable. I agree that they're profitable, just not "very."

Swanndogg, the problem I have with OMC tables is that in reality they don't c/c 3 streets for you with top pair. I made a thread about it "How do we felt mid stacks?" On the OMC tables I see, they play K9 or J8 or something, and fold face up the top pair unless you bet 20/20/20. Besides that, they all have arthritis, I doubt we even see 20 hands/hour because their can't grasp the cards easily, never know when the action is on them, never know how much was bet, take 5-25 minutes to turn their cards over at showdown, they sit with $100 and try to make it last 12 hours (many times successfully somehow). In terms of 1) hands/hour 2) money on the table per seat 3) complete lack of driving action, it's just a complete waste of why you're there to play. The tiny amount of money you win in hands against them just can't compete with the reasons they're horrible for the game I just mentioned.

LMFAO

For OP, adjustments in these types of games depend on stack sizes, position+tendencies of players left to act and your overall postflop strategy.

I personally like raising slightly larger in an attempt to get it heads up or 3 way postflop where my cbet shows a greater chance of success.

The thing to notice is how wide of a range the OMCs are limping. Is it any two cards, any two suited cards, any two connected cards and are they positionally aware (this is typically a no)

Not raising AJo in this type of game is criminal though.

I tend to find the high profit, high variance tables to be boring bingo tables for set mining nits who need other people to drive the action for them.

The tables being described by OP sound like high profit, low variance tables to me.

So you know how to exploit the OMC players, which is to barrel them relentlessly and have them fold TP to you on the river and arent convinced its the greatest thing ever?

I cant recall being in a game with 4 drunks and getting 20 hands an hour (but my casino is hand shuffle)

As for a complete lack of driving action, I prefer to be table captain, and if a table of OMC's are going to let me dictate the action on the table and will proudly lay down TP against me, this sounds like magical christmas land personally.

I don't know what the means lol.

Maybe we mean different things when we say "high." I mean a lot, you seem to mean not that much.

Correct. I said they would be great opponents to be up against in a tournament. But winning hands doesn't mean you're making money. 2 hands vs a crazy aggro is usually > 50 pots vs OMC.

I don't get caught up with labels such as "table captain." I'm there to make $, not just win small hands or have a huge ego or brag to a co-worker that you haven't had a losing session in 2 months even though each one was a $15 profit and you lost money in gas driving to the casino. But I don't know why you think table captain and action driver are the same player. The guy driving action is the guy (directly or indirectly) making you money because he's loosening up everyone else's stacks.

What does OMC stand for?

Old Man Coffee. The retired guy who sits with $100 at 2pm and at 11pm it has dwindled to $15 without a rebuy so he basically just wasted a seat all day/night for someone who wants actual $ on the table.

sounds to me that you are an OMC in the making

Yup, you nailed it.

But seriously, make your 1/2 BB/hour and brag to your friend who doesn't care.

In regards to the actual thread (since I'm the only one who's trying to help OP), I did like these OMC tables when I first started playing. When I got comfortable playing live, I realized the profits are capped here and now enjoy the drunk tables. SO that is what you should ultimately want. But if you need time to get used to live play in general, or a low variance game in general, these tables are okay for now. You'll see eventually for yourself that it's a waste of time though and feel like everything is moving in slow motion.