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Old 11-19-2010, 05:38 PM   #1
AcePlayerDeluxe
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Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Playing 7 handed. Table has been pretty nit tight except for me and villain. Villain also posts a little on 2p2.

Hero has been "running into it" tonight. Some tough beats, in for 3rd BI. People can see it a little on my face, but I havent changed anything in my game. Playing the same way. I think Villain knows this also. I have rarely limped tonight and have been raising IP a lot.

Villain posts a little on here. He loves to play HU cash online. I dont think he is a consistent winner online, but I am sure he has learned a lot of good things from it. Typically he plays tight for the first 1-2 hours and then after 2 hours starts opening up. He will limp/raise a lot (I am guessing anywhere between 5-8 times a session.. which is a lot). He likes to play post flop poker. If folded to in LP he will raise with a pretty wide range. I don't think he ever flats in LP when folded to. He sometimes has a little bit too much of FPS. Either that or he is like 7 levels above me. I think people are scared to call him down much so he takes advantage of it. Basically a decent player... but maybe as the night goes on loses a little discipline. His bet sizing is better than everyone else at the table with the exception of me. I think I beat his bet sizing, but prolly not by much (and maybe not in this hand, its debatable.. you'll see)

We are about 2 hours into it...

Hero ~250 SB
Villain BTN covers

Folds to V and he raises to $7
Hero in SB has A 2
Hero?

V will open pretty wide here, prolly just about ATC. I think this is a decent spot for a 3bet, but at the same time I know V will both flat and 4bet. It may or may not put us in a uncomfortable situation. That said I think we are ahead of his range with Ace high and we are suited connected.

Hero flats

Flop ($16)

Q 4 6

Hero?

This is actually a good flop IMO. We have what I figure to be 12 outs. 9 to the nuts for sure. Villain will cbet at a high freq.
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:43 PM   #2
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Hand is both too good and not good enough to 3 bet so I like flatting pre.

On the flop I'm c/r and looking to get it in.
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:53 PM   #3
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer View Post
Hand is both too good and not good enough to 3 bet so I like flatting pre.
On the flop I'm c/r and looking to get it in.
Exactly

How much you c/r and why?
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:56 PM   #4
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

depends a lot on his bet.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:16 PM   #5
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer View Post
depends a lot on his bet.
Hero Checks
V bets $10
Hero?

(irl btw)
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:20 PM   #6
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

35ish
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:22 PM   #7
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

like 28
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:26 PM   #8
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Even from a wide CO opening range A2s is not a great hand to flat HU OOP in the SB. A2s plays great MW and even though we are ahead of his range a villain with a bad case of FPS is very likely to push us off our hand and he has the position. We are far more likely to flop a marginal hand or a draw than a big hand (both are bad situations HU versus a creative player OOP).

Don't get me wrong I'm all for once in awhile playing against the regs and good players in spots like this to actually play poker instead of just taking standards lines versus the droolers at 1/2 but meh I really figure I don't have to.

After I say all that I still call pre even though it's a bad call

Check raise line is best here for sure because like you said he's cbetting with a very high frequency so I see much more value in a c/r line than a b/3b line. Also from the sounds of villain he could possibly 3b you with air/maybe semi-marginal holdings/low pairs turned bluffs in which case you have an easy shove imo.

Raise to ~$35.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:26 PM   #9
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

$31 ldo
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:01 PM   #10
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
Playing 7 handed. Table has been pretty nit tight except for me and villain. Villain also posts a little on 2p2.

Hero has been "running into it" tonight. Some tough beats, in for 3rd BI. People can see it a little on my face, but I havent changed anything in my game. Playing the same way. I think Villain knows this also. I have rarely limped tonight and have been raising IP a lot.

Villain posts a little on here. He loves to play HU cash online. I dont think he is a consistent winner online, but I am sure he has learned a lot of good things from it. Typically he plays tight for the first 1-2 hours and then after 2 hours starts opening up. He will limp/raise a lot (I am guessing anywhere between 5-8 times a session.. which is a lot). He likes to play post flop poker. If folded to in LP he will raise with a pretty wide range. I don't think he ever flats in LP when folded to. He sometimes has a little bit too much of FPS. Either that or he is like 7 levels above me. I think people are scared to call him down much so he takes advantage of it. Basically a decent player... but maybe as the night goes on loses a little discipline. His bet sizing is better than everyone else at the table with the exception of me. I think I beat his bet sizing, but prolly not by much (and maybe not in this hand, its debatable.. you'll see)

We are about 2 hours into it...

Hero ~250 SB
Villain BTN covers

Folds to V and he raises to $7
Hero in SB has A 2
Hero?

V will open pretty wide here, prolly just about ATC. I think this is a decent spot for a 3bet, but at the same time I know V will both flat and 4bet. It may or may not put us in a uncomfortable situation. That said I think we are ahead of his range with Ace high and we are suited connected.

Hero flats

Flop ($16)

Q 4 6

Hero?

This is actually a good flop IMO. We have what I figure to be 12 outs. 9 to the nuts for sure. Villain will cbet at a high freq.
I like the flat against this player. Check/Raise the turn to like $35-40 (assuming he makes standard bet).
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:31 PM   #11
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

I'm raising this flop against a cbet from an online player like 95% of the time. He can have any two cards to cbet this board, and 10 is pretty weak with the flush draw out there. I really think we can already take a monster out of his range, as he's betting more for protection as well as value. Plus, other than the flush draw this is a really dry board.

I raise to 28-32ish, and expect to take it down alot on the flop.

Edit: What to do on a blank turn if he flat calls is a much more interesting spot imo
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #12
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Def like the flat. Esp if this is the villain I think (has about 14 posts here?)

Given how much he likes to make opponents make big decisions, I say a raise is pretty much committing to playing for stacks. If your comfortable with that, raise about pot. He'll almost certainly fold or shove.

I kind of prefer a float here. A flat from another aggressive player looks really strong, and I think may induce him to out level himself, giving up on a brick turn and trying to rep the flush if diamond comes. May be FPS on my part, but I think we reduce variance without giving up equity.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:08 PM   #13
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Garick, yes its who you think it is.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:21 PM   #14
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

I fold this pre a decent amount of the time with only 120ish BBs. There's nothing in the pot and I don't wanna get into mind games against tougher villains, OOP, with shallowish stacks. This is an easy call deeper.

But calling is fine, and given that flop I think I would c/r a lot, but then Garick made a good point about being in a crap spot if flatted so maybe c/c is not bad. Probably c/c some of the time as well.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:44 PM   #15
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Given how much he likes to make opponents make big decisions, I say a raise is pretty much committing to playing for stacks. If your comfortable with that, raise about pot. He'll almost certainly fold or shove.
i have questions

1. is this read accurate APD?

2. so we are c/r for value here? (as well as to increase our implieds for the flush)

3. if the read above is correct, is his 3bet shoving range OTF here as wide as his c-bet range? presumably not. so by c/r, if he is very unlikely to flat, we are actually playing against his 3bet shoving range for stacks. i'm not too comfortable with that, unless his shoving range is super wide in this situation.

the problem is we also have poor implieds for a float here, since villian is likely to barrel bricked turns almost 100%. so the c/c line doesn't feel right either.

i'm somewhat stumped. fcuck it i donk shove
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:09 AM   #16
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

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Originally Posted by 8o8 View Post
i have questions

...

i'm somewhat stumped. fcuck it i donk shove
balla, time to move up.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:30 AM   #17
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

This board doesnt have enough draws present for CR IMO. I dont think villain will 2 barrel air as he will expect us to call turn.

I c/c flop, chk chk turn hopefully if i miss, and bet river if i miss or hit.

There are a lot more ways to capture his cbet and pot rather than just CR and getting in. Its certainly +EV, but not optimal IMO.

oh, and i fold pre.

Last edited by AintNoLimit; 11-20-2010 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:40 AM   #18
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

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Originally Posted by AintNoLimit View Post
I dont think villain will 2 barrel air as he will expect us to call turn.
why?
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:49 AM   #19
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

And decent player calling from blinds and c/c this flop will have Qx and FD a ton.
They will not have K5. If i cbet this flop and get called thats it. Barreling air on this board would be pathetic vs a decent player. I expect villain to at least know this too.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:59 AM   #20
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Ill try to add as much info as possible. Yes this player likes to add pressure. He will make some biggish bets on scared money and sometimes just spazzes it.

If I c/r I dont expect him to 3bet shove without a huge hand but there is a chance he can 4bet just because he may think he can win it right there and it depends on my sizing.

Hero raises to $25

I chose smaller because a) I wanted to build a pot without committing and it also sets up a better shove if he 4bets smallish and i decide shoving is in the playbook b) if he 4bets its going to be based on my size. If i make it a big raise and he 4 bets hes going to make it big and i hate folding to a huge raise with what I think is good equity.

V calls $15

Turn ($66)

5

Hero?
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:29 AM   #21
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

It'd be really fishy if we c/r the flop and then checked the turn, so we have to bet here. Somewhere around $35 seems right. Offers villain 3:1 if he has a draw that can still beat us.

Unless villain has set, 2p, or smaller flush, they're shutting down when the 3rd diamond hits, so you might as well bet here and hope villain likes to gamble and/or has KXdd.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:38 AM   #22
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit View Post
And decent player calling from blinds and c/c this flop will have Qx and FD a ton.
They will not have K5. If i cbet this flop and get called thats it. Barreling air on this board would be pathetic vs a decent player. I expect villain to at least know this too.
i think villain can expect hero to call fairly wide here, given villain's image, so any piece of the flop as well as any FD or SD, or maybe even a small PP that flatted pre, are all in hero's range as perceived by villain IMO. given this, and what is likely good FE from most of this range (depending on hero's image), i expect this villain to barrel most non-diamond turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
I chose smaller because a) I wanted to build a pot without committing and it also sets up a better shove if he 4bets smallish and i decide shoving is in the playbook b) if he 4bets its going to be based on my size. If i make it a big raise and he 4 bets hes going to make it big and i hate folding to a huge raise with what I think is good equity
would this technically be a 3bet not a 4bet?

anyway i like the raise sizing. if villain mostly flats our raise, i like the c/r line.

OTT, we have to consider what villain's perception of our c/r range OTF is to figure out how to extract the most value.

villain's range is likely weak here, i expect mostly made up of air and some medium SDV hands.

i guess we have 2 good options here:

1. overbet (~$55) to try and convince villain we bluff c/r'd flop and are continuing to pressure on a scare card. looking for value from medium SDV hands.
2. underbet ($35 or $40) to try and induce. given villain's tendencies he may like a raise here, figuring he can fold out almost all of our range that isn't a flush. we can flat and hope his hand improves OTR

Last edited by 8o8; 11-20-2010 at 01:46 AM. Reason: $40 not $45
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:39 AM   #23
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

c/r here is super standard, I think everything else is a bit fps.

I think that your raise is a bit on the small side. If you actually think he's capable of coming over the top and then folding to a shove then it should be bigger not smaller, I don't understand your reasoning there.

As played 45 on turn.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:51 AM   #24
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer View Post
c/r here is super standard, I think everything else is a bit fps.

I think that your raise is a bit on the small side. If you actually think he's capable of coming over the top and then folding to a shove then it should be bigger not smaller, I don't understand your reasoning there.

As played 45 on turn.
not really.

i don't think its like OMFG OBV C/R... c/c is fine, it probably goes check/check on tons of turns and then you bet riv regardless...


edit: also, i think the fast that we really only have a bare FD makes this more passive line not terribad to take. I mean, if we c/r he will fold/3bet alot and we will have to get it in and thats not optimal...
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:56 AM   #25
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Re: Ad2d 1/2 NL SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
Ill try to add as much info as possible. Yes this player likes to add pressure. He will make some biggish bets on scared money and sometimes just spazzes it.

If I c/r I dont expect him to 3bet shove without a huge hand but there is a chance he can 4bet just because he may think he can win it right there and it depends on my sizing.

Hero raises to $25

I chose smaller because a) I wanted to build a pot without committing and it also sets up a better shove if he 4bets smallish and i decide shoving is in the playbook b) if he 4bets its going to be based on my size. If i make it a big raise and he 4 bets hes going to make it big and i hate folding to a huge raise with what I think is good equity.

V calls $15

Turn ($66)

5

Hero?
oh ****... its turnsday? and you binked it!

bet 40 (like you have to bet, this is the most retarded spot to check/trap lol)
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