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AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL)

11-21-2010 , 01:36 PM
So I'm sitting at a new table, I think I have just about 2 orbits worth of hands.. roughly 20. I don't really have any solid reads on anyone except that they 'seem' to be relatively loose and relatively passive. But I do only have 20 hands.

Starting stack sizes, everyone has about.. $100-150.

Anyway, 9 handed, UTG2 makes it $10 to go. It gets called by two opponents, folded by the rest, and I'm sitting on the BTN with AQo.

I decide to call. Bad call? Is this a check/fold?

If I raise, I'd probably have to make it at least $35, and UTG2 could re-raise me and I'd be put in a very tough spot. At this point in time I have no idea what UTG2 is capable of, and whether he's ahead or behind.

Anyway, SB comes along as well.

Roughly $50 to the flop. Flop comes 9d Td Qc.

SB leads out $25. UTG2 calls. MP calls. Now $75 + $50 in the pot, I have $110 remaining. I don't have a diamond.

What to do here? Board is draw heavy, I have position, but if I flat with 3 opponents to the turn, I'm drawing nearly dead and a ton of cards will likely improve their range. But if I raise, I could be betting into a made hand that's already ahead of mine. Is this a check/fold at this point? Or always a shove against typical live $1/2 players without a read?
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-21-2010 , 02:42 PM
For stacks of 50BB, I'm not folding TPTK, and I'm not letting the draws in cheap. I shove here and live with the results.

You are likely up against a PP and a draw, both of which you have good equity agains, though 2-pair is also a good possibility.

Note that there are no /check/fold situations in this hand. You have position and people are betting in to you. You never have an opportunity to check.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-21-2010 , 04:41 PM
If flat calling PF this is about the best flop you can hope for. You out flopped AK and JJ which are possible hands you could be against that.

Turn card could be very bad for your hand so I would just shove here....
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-21-2010 , 07:18 PM
what were you hoping would come on the flop when you called with AQ? QQQ?

Shove and you don't have to worry about what to do with scary turn cards.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-21-2010 , 07:41 PM
It's a gross spot because your hand is actually pretty weak on this board but given stack sizes I can't see doing anything besides shoving. Calling OTB with AQo from an ep raise is kinda standard btw.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-21-2010 , 08:46 PM
I Agree easy shove imo, you outflopped most hands other than kk and aa, the c bet doesn't show set-strength from most people so you're likely good here. If it was an ace that's a tougher decision. That's a great spot for you, most of the time.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-22-2010 , 08:48 AM
Well, thinking about the hands that have me pretty crushed here:
Made straights: J8o, J8s, JKo, JKs
Sets: 99, TT, QQ
Two Pairs: QTo, QTs, 9To, 9Ts, Q9o, Q9s
And of course AA, KK

And hands which are ahead of me, but I'm not way behind:
KQ/AJ of diamonds

Any J with diamond draw
Any K with diamond draw (including AK diamonds)
Q8 of diamonds

And hands which are behind, but not way behind me:

Any pair with a diamond draw.
Any eight with a diamond draw.
JJ

I'm happy getting it in against those, but considering the range...

And the fact I'm up against 3 opponents (4 to the flop), and all it takes is one of them to have one of those hands to be ahead of me..

Is getting it in here really that smart?

I know I'm up against live players who may be playing all sorts of garbage hands, but J8o and Kd 2d (or better) is definitely in their range, and also ahead here.

Last edited by literal; 11-22-2010 at 08:57 AM.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-22-2010 , 09:38 AM
You have QQ, the flop come T73, list all the hands that have you crushed.

Better yet, list any random flop, and list all the hands that have TPTK crushed. Be sure to add all that hands that will crush TPTK given a nice draw on the turn.

If you don't flop a set with AA, on a T73 flop, fold immediately. There are 3 possible sets, and T7, T3, 73 have all flopped two pair. 89 has an open ended str draw, and 56 or 45 have gutshots, so a 4 or 6 on the turn is no good either. In fact, almost any card on the turn could give someone two pair, and if the board pairs, you got boats or trips to worry about. Fold AA preflop, you only hit a set about 1 out of 8 times anyways.

The following hands should never be played. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT , AK, AQ, AJ, KQ. You will usually flop TPTK with these or have a mere overpair, and so many hands crush this.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-24-2010 , 07:38 AM
Most players, even loose live ones have some notion of hand selection. Very few people will play 25o or 73o preflop.

The range that players usually play is a lot more likely to beat me in this case.

A flop like T73 actually doesn't have a lot of hands that crush me. For one, it doesn't connect as well with the cards they're likely to hold.

Secondly, there are no possible made straights. The other board has two made straights already.

Thirdly, with an overpair, there's also hands experienced players will get it in with, believing they're a favorite. on a T73 flop, like JJ and sometimes AT. The situation is way different when you only have top pair. The only thing I have going for me is the fact I'm short, meaning they're more likely to get it in with worse, and when I'm behind I lose less.

The number of players is also important. Here I'm up against 4 players who saw the flop, a very helpful flop to beat top pair, and I only have top pair.

The real question is, am I even remotely ahead often enough to get it in?

Poker is situational. If I have QQ on a T73 non-suited rainbow flop, and a guy bets, the next guy raises, and a lady re-raises, would you still get it in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokaaface
You have QQ, the flop come T73, list all the hands that have you crushed.

Better yet, list any random flop, and list all the hands that have TPTK crushed. Be sure to add all that hands that will crush TPTK given a nice draw on the turn.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-24-2010 , 10:52 AM
Reads on SB? How aggressive has he been with top pair? Is he more likely to lead with only 2pair very strong hands or will he also lead with top pair to "see where he's at?" Or will he play any top pair as if it's the nuts till shown otherwise?

Your stack size really ties your hands here. There are sooo many scare cards on the turn that you probably need to default to a shove here since you only started with 60BB and half the deck is scare cards.

I do think that this flop isn't my favorite one to see multiway while I'm holding AQ. Your hand is still strong but your relative hand strength is a bit diminished on a board that smashes a lot of worse broadways and medium SCs (the range that your average player loves to see a flop with).

I make my decision based on my read of SB. I have to know that he's capable of betting out into 3 people with a worse hand than me often. Once that's been established, I shove.
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote
11-25-2010 , 05:36 AM
Fold>>>>Shove>>>Call
AQo on the BTN facing a donk bet and 2 callers (1/2NL) Quote

      
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