(First post on 2+2. Apologies for any formatting mistakes etc.)

Standard, rather loose live $1-2 game. This was going to be my last hand. Until…

Hero – UTG - $1200 – recently tripled up by getting it AI on flop with flush draw+overcard against two opponents (who were not involved in below hand).
Villain 1 – MP+1 - $200 – no read
Villain 2 – CO - $400 – slightly tricky. Recently saw him slow play a monster. Straddles when he can.

PREFLOP
Hero is dealt Ace (diamond) Ace (heart) UTG.
Hero raises to $15. Called by MP+1 and CO.

FLOP ($48)
Queen (club) Jack (spade) Nine (club)

Hero bets $35. V1 raises to $70. V2 calls. Hero calls.

[Yucky flop for my Aces. I bet in order not to give a free card, and to try to gauge the strength of Villains’ hands early on, so I can get away early if they show strength. I flat call the raise because once I see the raise and the cold call, I’m not happy to get all the money in on this flop. I’m worried about being well behind to two pair or the flopped straight. And while I’m ahead of draws, I’m not miles and miles ahead. Feels like the only hand which I crush is an overplayed top- or middle- pair. Question –am I being too scared here, should I just get it in? V1 only has $115 behind once he’s raised. V2 has $315 left once he’s called.)

TURN ($258)
Five (diamond)

Hero checks. V1 checks. V2 bets $150.

Hero….????

Any advice very welcome! Thank you.

Just fold to the flop raise. Betting out is okay but you have to fold to that raise, especially when V2 flats. So many hands beat you. Even if you're ahead now they have massive combined outs against you. Easy fold.

As played I'm still folding turn.

My (flawed?) thinking about the flop call was basically - hey, I'm getting 6 to 1 to see another card. Might hit a set. Board might pair to counterfeit their 2 pairs (tho obv makes trips possible for Villains). Or the Villains might slow down a bit and I could get to showdown cheaply...

I don't like a call on the flop. I would almost like to see a 3bet otf and fold to further action. As played I am folding. V is almost never betting a Q into 2 players

3bet the flop are you nuts??


Tribal, the odds are good but you don't even know if your 2(!) outs are good given KT and club draws. And if the board pairs your opponent often has trips or a boat, so fold is still easy.

Aces are great, but they're even better when you understand their relative value to the board. On this board it's a slightly ahead/way behind ssituation vs. 1 opponent. Against a min 3 bettor and cold caller they turn into twin phallic symbols to be used by your opponents to prison rape you on later streets.

That's a crappy flop. I honestly am sigh folding to the min raise. It is always vastly skewed towards the nuts at these stakes. Reasoning is your hand has little chance of improving and that flop is all over their calling ranges pre. You could save yourself the extra $ on the flop.

OK, thanks all. I folded on the turn Just wanted to confirm I was right. Shoulda folded to the raise on the flop, in hindsight.

OK - two related questions:

1) What's the *largest* effective stack that I should be willing to get AI with on the flop here? Obviously if we all have $1000 behind, I don't want to get it in. If we all have just $10 behind, I'm pot committed and have to stack off. Where's the tipping point? (Context - this is a seriously loose live game. It would not be surprising for one Villain to stack off with a bare top-pair-medium-kicker. If Villain has top pair+8 card straight draw, or top pair plus any flush draw, he's almost always getting it in.

2) In general, when we have Aces and the flop is super-wet, is it better to check and just keep the pot as small as possible? Or better to bet once to charge draws and get Villain(s) to 'declare' the strength of their hand? How does this calculation change against 1, 2 or 3 opponents. Again - loose, passive live game.

Thank you!

Stop right here. It's time to change our mentality with AA. We're probably not going to win a big pot or even get three streets of value. We raised UTG and didn't get 3 bet. Two players called in position, neither of whom is a target. We need to play AA slowly and carefully.

I like the bet and sizing. Fold now. We don't want to play AA OOP to a flop raiser and caller. Almost no good cards fall on turn for us and we're almost certain to face a bet.

Now this is strange. $150 is a pretty big bet in 1/2 live. V1 is almost never checking better than AA in this spot. and V2 would probably be raising better on the flop. At this point I would range V1 to AcXc and V2 to Q10 or something of that nature. Shove or fold is pretty close. I still probably fold.

:grunch:

It sounds like your triple up may have been a mistake.

Raise pre is fine, sizing is good for UTG. Some will try to l/rr ... you need a really spewy table and proper stack sizes for that, most of the time it's lighting money on fire.

Wet board, OOP, not happy. I think you can get away with a slightly smaller lead here, $30.

I lean fold to the flop raise after V2 calls. Best case we're against a big Q and a draw. Worst case we're drawing dead. And we're OOP so it'll cost us more when we're beat and we win less when we hold up. FOLD.

Don't flat the raise. 6:1 isn't good enough to set mine. Your two outs may not be good anyway.

We're never stacking off to V2 here. V1 heads up I can go either way. Some guys will spew KQ here, others will have the goods.

FOLD THE TURN.


It seems like it's too passive/weak to fold aces ... but they're not good here very often. This is why people bitch about getting their AA cracked, they put in too much when they're behind postflop.

LOL

This is not an insta fold.. But really wish we had more info on the v's and how they play their draws and tp type hands tho...

Would you like your hand enough to get all in if you turn a set? The two straights still beat you, and one of the remaining aces puts a flush on board. I think an ace would cause you to lose more money than you would win, on the whole.

Even if all that weren't true, don't call raises with your main plan being to hit a two-outer. Bad plan.