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Aces UTG 5 ways 5/5NL

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02-13-2019 , 08:51 PM

FusilliJerry

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 60

2k eff @ 5/5NL

Open A

utg1 25
4 callers (utg2, utg3, sb, bb)
Flop QT6 (125)
Loose passive sb donks 45 (1.5K), Bb call (tight passive; short 300 stack),
***I've seen him donk multiway with strength - 2p,sets; will donk 1p in a HU spot;
***flat with A

?
Hero call???
utg2 calls behind (tight passive call)

Turn 8 (300)
Sb 90, fold, Hero call, fold = hu
River 9 (480)
SB 250
Hero?

Last edited by FusilliJerry; 02-13-2019 at 08:56 PM.

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02-13-2019 , 09:29 PM

dwiele

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,258

Seems fine if you fold rover

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02-13-2019 , 09:34 PM

FightingFish

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 151

Flop I think in raising to iso and stay the aggressor has merits, hand becomes much more defined and easier to play - don’t really want to go 5 ways to the turn.

Same could also be said for the turn to such a weak bet size.

As playe river looks valuey AF and the world came in except hearts and we block nut heart draws. I’m folding.

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02-13-2019 , 09:35 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

This is why having a limping range from EP is great.

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02-13-2019 , 09:40 PM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

This is why having a limping range from EP is great.

Limping from EP, and specifically limping AA from EP once in a while is fine...but THIS hand is not why its fine.

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02-13-2019 , 09:44 PM

FusilliJerry

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

This is why having a limping range from EP is great.

I think limping Aces is ideal in some games, but this game was way too passive. Very high chance it limped around.

I considered raising flop, but it felt like an overplay, especially w/ Ah, and V donking into so many players. Feels like I am not very far ahead of his range, and we have to worry about other V's...

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02-13-2019 , 09:46 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Limping from EP, and specifically limping AA from EP once in a while is fine...but THIS hand is not why its fine.

Premiums benefit from low SPR and the only way to get that is by 3betting preflop. We can’t do that from EP.

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02-13-2019 , 09:48 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by FusilliJerry

I think you played fine since you raised from EP. But I think the always RFI strategy is flawed 9-10 handed games.

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02-13-2019 , 09:50 PM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Premiums benefit from low SPR and the only way to get that is by 3betting preflop. We can’t do that from EP.

No disagreement there, but limping in and having nobody raise sucks too. On a passive table the best line is to just raise yourself. Its sucks to get 4-5 callers, but it happens sometimes. Just because it happened this particular time doesn't mean we shouldve limped.

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02-13-2019 , 10:00 PM

#10

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Yeah I think Hero played it well. Most EP winrates are very low, my hunch is limping range would be higher EV across the board.

You get a few benefits:

1) You can get heads up with super premiums

2) You will be incredibly hard to play against postflop if you limp-RR a balanced range.

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02-13-2019 , 10:10 PM

#11

RoadtoPro

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 6,600

I understand the odds we're getting are amazing, but is there a good case folding turn? How often are ahead of the SB here, even at 5/5?

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02-13-2019 , 10:18 PM

#12

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadtoPro

I understand the odds we're getting are amazing, but is there a good case folding turn? How often are ahead of the SB here, even at 5/5?

Even if Villain has 2 pair we have odds.

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02-13-2019 , 10:40 PM

#13

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Unless the SB is a moron, it's difficult to believe he can't beat AA.

I'm also assuming the SB was already ahead on the turn, if not the flop.

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02-13-2019 , 10:42 PM

#14

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Premiums benefit from low SPR and the only way to get that is by 3betting preflop. We can’t do that from EP.

With effective stacks of 400bb, a LRR is not going to bring a low enough SPR to enable auto-shove decisions.

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02-13-2019 , 10:44 PM

#15

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

We can also bluff some

rivers. Being deep against SB actually benefits us in that regard.

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02-13-2019 , 10:46 PM

#16

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Raise flop. Don't limp so deep. Would rather open to 50.

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02-13-2019 , 10:47 PM

#17

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,582

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

With effective stacks of 400bb, a LRR is not going to bring a low enough SPR to enable auto-shove decisions.

Yeah but it gets us heads up against one opponent most times with the preflop nuts. A very profitable situation

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02-13-2019 , 10:48 PM

#18

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

If you’re not happy with as many callers as you can get with AA then you’re bad post.

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02-13-2019 , 10:50 PM

#19

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

If you’re not happy with as many callers as you can get with AA then you’re bad post.

Awful sentence

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02-13-2019 , 11:09 PM

#20

twitcherroo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait

Raise flop. Don't limp so deep. Would rather open to 50.

H didn't limp.

I think I like a raise on the flop. Certainly not committing to the hand, but I'm not slowing down quite yet.

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02-13-2019 , 11:18 PM

#21

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by twitcherroo

H didn't limp.

I think I like a raise on the flop. Certainly not committing to the hand, but I'm not slowing down quite yet.

i know others suggested it

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02-13-2019 , 11:46 PM

#22

persianpunisher

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 2,818

For sure raise the flop. Lots of good things can happen. You deny equity. You play turns in position. You can isolate the short stack and GII way ahead. And you can pretty comfortably fold to further aggression from SB or others behind.

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02-14-2019 , 02:59 AM

#23

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait

Would rather open to 50.

Sure. $50 with AA, $40 with KK, $30 with QQ, and $25 with whatever else you are opening with. Sounds like a good strategy.

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02-14-2019 , 12:50 PM

#24

wait

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,115

Was half a joke

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02-14-2019 , 04:26 PM

#25

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by wait

Awful sentence

Getting a lot of callers can be a sign that we could have gone bigger and gotten more value, and fewer callers at a bigger sizing is often better than many callers at a small sizing, however that's not what I meant. Once we choose our sizing and make the raise, we want as many callers with AA as we can get. Of course we have no control over how many callers we get, so this is mostly pointless to talk about, but my point is that it is wrong to be disappointed with a lot of callers and it's wrong to say limping is better if we expect lots of callers to our raise.

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