Villain: Overweight, loud and obnoxious guy sits down and within 30 mins see him stack off with middle pair medium kicker on river and other crazy plays (which he wins lol)

Both of us are 300bb deep.

Hero UTG - Dealt AA
Hero raise to 5, Villain (BTN) calls, along with few others.

FLop: 678r (pot 25)
Hero bets 15.
Villain raises to 35, Hero calls (should this have been a fold?)
Everyone else has folded.

Turn: 8 (pot 95)
Hero checks, Villain bets 40.

Hero?

[N.B I cannot stress enough how much of a whale this guy was...]

There is no simple answer to this question, but yes, you can get away from this one turn. Depending on villain, even folding to the flop bet might be right. How aggressive is villain about betting? Does he bet draws or only made hands? Does he bluff and will he bluff multiple streets? Against the typical player the flop raise is sets/two pair/pair+straight draw, the 8X without a draw and straight draws are more likely to flat call. The pair+draws are going to be more 8X then 6X, so most hands that raise flop have you crushed on turn. This is a very good board for villain to bluff at you, but it is because it is a board you have to give up a lot or get destroyed by value betting when villain does have it.

Is this one of these reversed hand histories?

Anyway, call turn, evaluate river.

I agree normally i would be crushed but with this villain i expected draw or 73o etc.

Not reversed, if you're implying I'm villain?

I called.

River: 8

Board: 6 7 8 8 8

Hero to act first, what do?

Against an aggressive whale who could be betting/bluffing anything here I check river and plan on mostly calling if/when he bets. River actually improves your situation slightly as your now beating a flopped straight. Turn and river are really situational here though, it is such a good situation for value betting and for big bluffs.

Yeah awesome river card. U beat everything but the case 8. ^^^ why check river? He will prob call with lower pp's, a 7 and straights if he's bad. Bet half pot

My thought was i instantly have him beat. I quickly lead out for 75 pot (pot~170)

He laughs instantly and says "thats the worst bet I've ever seen, i can't believe you just did that, and have given me all your chips" and then ships allin for another 130. I have 300 behind me.

Call or fold?

Pot 445

I'm checking river because even most total fish I've played against have enough sense to get out of the way when bet into on river here. Villain's range is 100% polarized between air and absolute nuts.

Having him ship into Hero after Hero bets isn't happy, but having reached this point I can't see folding either. Pot odds are better then 3-1 and the chance he is bluffing, has an over pair or has a flopped set/straight that still thinks they are good is enough.

I think a fold makes sense here. "beware the speech" is a phrase that you might have heard before. If he hadn't made the speech about the worst bet ever I would have to think about it. With the speech I fold my aces face up and watch him dumbfound at how could you fold that, while he shows you the 8. You can sit there and smile, knowing you basically won $130 from him.

I guess for me I think a check is okay if you think V will bet into you. It's hard to give credit for an 8. The reason I say bet is I would hate for him to check behind. Being IP would be way better here.

Gotta call this shove. If he's a whale then he prob thinks any made hand is good. His speech would make me suspicious too. Why would he be calling you stupid for betting if he wants you to put more money in the pot? If you've seen him call down large bets with 2nd pair type hands then this is a snap call. Almost a fist pump even.

I'm calling turn, maybe a check on the river but the bet is fine. As for his reraise, just call it. Odds are good and you have a boat against a whale.

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If you called OTT thinking you were ahead enough of the time there was no better river card for you other than an Ace. River is a snap call getting almost 3.5-to-1 against an aggro whale.

The interesting part of this hand is whether to donk OTR. If he has a straight I'd be worried he'd block bet $40ish and maybe call a min-check/raise. If he has a full house he's never folding so a check/shove would ensure stacks get in. Ask yourself which side he's more weighted towards given his timing, posture, etc. If you're going to donk the river then I'd prefer something like $110 (roughly half his remaining stack).

If he had an 8 say NH and top up knowing he's going to give it back later.

Thanks for the replies people, appreciate the opinions.

I ended up pretty much snap calling, like someone said i was actually hoping for an 8 or A on the river.

He flips over 86. GG as frustratingly he then shortly moves to 2-2 omaha, bet that table had dollar signs in their eyes...

Beware the speech man. Even though you are getting odds to call, sometimes you have to take tells into account, and that speech was a huge tell. Like I said, you fold face up. Put him on monkey tilt and watch as he throws his money and probably feces as you as well.

Even whales get lucky. The only card he could've beaten you with was an 8, 1 out 52 cards. I would've check-raised before the flop and probably gone all in by the river and been busted out.

Even the worst players have hands sometimes. That is why I said folding turn here is right a lot. Even for an idiot, too much of his range beats Hero and you have to be willing to recognize that and get out of the way at the right time. Wait for a hand where you can be more confident you are ahead then one where hoping villein is bluffing.

I saw a terrible stationary maniac hit two straight flushes in 6 hours Monday. It was just blind luck that I wasn't in either of those hands and made off with a good chunk of the money he won hitting stupid hands like that.

To the OP: Much of the advice you got in this thread was not well justified or thought out. Don't take too much of it.

I think the read you have posted on the villain seems garbled and not detailed. How did he get it in? What were the villains like that he stacked off against? How deep was he then? These are meaningful considerations.

I don't love that we got in 300 bb on this board in a five way pot without a read that villain's hand range was mostly 99-KK.

Just a few hand comments:

You have to raise way more pre and try to thin the field to 2-3 players.

Flop is ok but you need to have a plan for how you're going to proceed (i.e. bet/fold turn or check/evaluate). His hand range includes a ton of things that are beating you.

The turn card was not good for your range here, 98, T8, and 85 just caught you. 86 and 87 just got way better. And 76 probably just gave up on the hand. I'd fold the turn here a lot.

River, I don't really like a bet absent a read he has 99-KK. Much better to bluff catch. Hard to believe he will call off with a straight or a 7 on that board.

The pot is HU after the flop?

Please explain why this really matters.

What is more relevant is that it went 5 ways to the flop.

Your phrasing was a bit confusing. It made it seem to me that you were saying 300BBs went in when there were still 5 players in the hand.

I didn't think Villain's range was 99-KK (certainly not JJ+). The flop was pretty standard to me. The turn call could be debated (we don't beat much, I personally fold) but the OP seemed more concerned with the spot he's in OTR.

I'm only going on the description given in the OP. I don't view opponents who get all their money in with MPGK as good players, especially after being at the table only an orbit or two. Maybe if he was 3-4 hours into a session and had enough reason to hero with such a hand I'd give him credit for being decent but still, I'd likely think he was just a bad station.

Players this bad will not fold a full house ever, I don't care if he has 22. Are you really advocating a check/call OTR with top full house? You have to bet/call or check/shove AINEC.

No, just the basic concept that when a bunch of people see the flop, their bets are less likely to be bluffs and their hand range tends to converge toward stronger hands.

I think you are vastly overstating their willingness to get it in here with a hand like 97.

Further why would they have raised flop and bet turn with a hand like 6x or 7x or 22-55? That's an odd line for even a bad player to take.

I also don't think the OP gave a great read on the villain.

That's rough but it happens. I think the thoughts here are OK, most people play in hindsight so they have the outcome already, its a tough hand to get away from. I can see why people would fold turn though

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