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Old 08-11-2018, 03:33 PM   #1
krilleater
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Aces with a sick flop

I'm playing a $1/3 at a fairly action-packed table. MP has $500 and is young gambly Asian reg. CO and BTN are relatively unknown (both short stacked).

My stack is ~$300 at this point.

MP opens to 20, CO calls, BTN calls, hero raises to 90 with black Aces in SB, MP calls, CO all in for 140, BTN all in 120, I call, MP calls.

This was super frustrating in that I couldn't 5-bet due to their all-in sizing ($90->140 doesn't reopen betting). Should I have sized differently to account for that?

Flop: Kh3hKd

Grunch, terrible flop. I feel like at least one V has a King here in a 4-bet pot all the time.

Hero?
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:45 PM   #2
Matt98
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

Jam pre. You're leaving 160 behind for a $540 pot, you're just letting MP get a cheap price to outflop you.

It's hard for me to say what to do on the flop because all the money should just be in at this point. AP, I'd probably just jam flop as well. If MP has a King, he's going to put you all in and you're going to have to call, but if he has a flush-draw and you check, he's going to take his free card so just jam flop I guess but absolutely jam pre all day long.
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:49 PM   #3
krilleater
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

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Jam pre. You're leaving 160 behind for a $540 pot, you're just letting MP get a cheap price to outflop you.
Do you mean 3-bet jam? I think that's a terrible move to jam $300 into a $60 pot.

I absolutely would have 5-bet jammed, but the all-ins didn't re-open betting because they were not legal bets so all I could do was call. It was a very frustrating situation to be in, since I knew MP was getting a great price to outflop me for a big pot.
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:55 PM   #4
Matt98
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

Oh that's true I didn't even realize the action didn't reopen. Brutal situation for you. I still think jam flop is better than checking for the reasons I said in my first comment though. We're probably not going to scoop the main pot, but I think facing a jam from MP if we check, we're going to have to call and we can still be ahead of MPs range.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:17 PM   #5
whatnow88
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

I wouldn't size down in this situation because it's to small. You would have to make it 70 ish if I'm reading it right.
I would have just make 100 pre
otf I'm not folding given what has happened so I would bet really small to get a crying call by worse and call if he jams
I would bet like 60 on flop
100 on turn
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:19 PM   #6
BigBlue56
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
I'm playing a $1/3 at a fairly action-packed table. MP has $500 and is young gambly Asian reg. CO and BTN are relatively unknown (both short stacked).



My stack is ~$300 at this point.



MP opens to 20, CO calls, BTN calls, hero raises to 90 with black Aces in SB, MP calls, CO all in for 140, BTN all in 120, I call, MP calls.



This was super frustrating in that I couldn't 5-bet due to their all-in sizing ($90->140 doesn't reopen betting). Should I have sized differently to account for that?



Flop: Kh3hKd



Grunch, terrible flop. I feel like at least one V has a King here in a 4-bet pot all the time.



Hero?


When CO calls the 20, with 140 behind, I have to take notice that it's possible they shove. A raise to 80 seems awful, but it does open the betting back up and you can shove over. If 140 folds, but 120 shoves, you are in the same spot as before. So now we consider a raise to 70 instead of 80. Offers some kind of shove insurance.

Raising to 140 might get you to the same spot, faster. In general, I'm happy to shovel chips in the pot with AA preflop, LDO.

Considering the raise to 150, might as well make it a shove yourself. With 300, the raise to 90 is pretty pot committing. CO knows they aren't chasing many out of the pot with the raise, and BTN the same. I think they call, and MP might as well too.

With that flop, it's probably a bad break. Seems that you may be up against a K, and at least 1 Ace may be out there in a hand too. You are happy to shovel those chips in preflop.

As played, with $160 behind, and a main pot of $480 (minus rake) a side pot of $60 and just MP left... $160 is going to fold to your shove without a K or draw. I think I'm sigh shoving, hoping MP. Has QQ and I get my money back.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:31 PM   #7
DumbosTrunk
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

Yes, you should have raised to an amount that would allow you to re-shove in the event the shorter stacked player to your left jammed.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:40 PM   #8
krilleater
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

I think a jam is terrible in this particular game especially—they would've mostly folded.

70 just seems far too low though in case they *don't* shove then I'm taking Aces 4-way OOP (terrible result).

These stack sizes are super awkward, but how does anyone call a $300 shove into a $60 pot?

Quote:
You are happy to shovel those chips in preflop.
Obviously, but I'd rather get at least some calls.

CO had JKo, I doubt he'd call a shove. MP had KQd - he *definitely* wouldn't have called a shove. BTN had TT, so he might have but I have no idea why he didn't 3-bet the first time.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:44 PM   #9
krilleater
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

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Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
I wouldn't size down in this situation because it's to small. You would have to make it 70 ish if I'm reading it right.
I would have just make 100 pre
otf I'm not folding given what has happened so I would bet really small to get a crying call by worse and call if he jams
I would bet like 60 on flop
100 on turn
Is there a big difference between 90 and 100? It would have been the same result.

On the flop, I don't like the idea of betting small because if he *doesn't* have the K he could definitely have a FD so he can catch up. IMO I definitely don't want to be playing 3 streets here.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:31 PM   #10
BigBlue56
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
I think a jam is terrible in this particular game especially—they would've mostly folded.

70 just seems far too low though in case they *don't* shove then I'm taking Aces 4-way OOP (terrible result).

These stack sizes are super awkward, but how does anyone call a $300 shove into a $60 pot?



Obviously, but I'd rather get at least some calls.

CO had JKo, I doubt he'd call a shove. MP had KQd - he *definitely* wouldn't have called a shove. BTN had TT, so he might have but I have no idea why he didn't 3-bet the first time.
MP (covers) KQ opens to 20, calls raise to 90, calls shove to 140.
CO (140) KJo, calls 20, shoves over raise to 140.
BTN (120) TT, calls 20, calls shove to 120.


MP might find a fold if you raise to 140, not knowing that it's going 4 ways.
CO shoved over the raise with KJ, I think you get that call, regardless of MP call.
BTN undercalls, I think you get that call too.


I'm not great with the programs that run the odds, but with such shallow stack sizes, I think they all made bad calls. Nobody is getting the right odds to draw at the 3 bet, even with the other (short) callers.

Bad end of variance. Way more often than them you are taking down the whole thing.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:38 PM   #11
krilleater
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Re: Aces with a sick flop

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MP might find a fold if you raise to 140, not knowing that it's going 4 ways.
He definitely folds. He announced he felt priced in on the additional calls, but is the least bad player of the other 3.

I think they all made terrible plays, but a larger bet (especially a shove) would have let them play better. Of the calls, MP's is by far the least bad.

If I'd shoved I think I might have taken it heads-up with BTN but that's result-oriented IMO. 90% of the time all I do is take down a $60 pot.
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