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ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP

09-06-2016 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie4444
To your point about his tendencies - I haven't seen him do anything crazy unless he's drunk, but even then I don't think he bets 500 OTR with his value hands (sets, weird Q,T or 4,5), he's more likely to bet 300-350. His sizing really made me tank for a few mins.

However, I ended up folding as I just couldn't gather enough 'proof/cause' to justify the call - overall it just didn't seem like a spewy moment to me. Also, sets would play this hand exactly like this (except sizing as I mentioned) especially against my range which looks very like KK or AA.

After tanking and having clock called I folded with a few seconds left. He showed the Ad - then after speaking to him for a few mins admitted he had AQdd but felt like I had KK and decided to try 'bet large enough' to get me to fold.

On reflection I felt like my thought process was good in this hand and long term this is a good fold?

Interesting hand. He flopped the world and was going for straight value until the river. It probably wasn't until the river that he realized that he might have the worst hand at showdown and needed to bluff in order to win.

So, how do you pick up on betting patterns where a player goes from value on the turn to bluff on the river? That is a hard one. Because usually a player shuts down in that situation and tries to get a free showdown in case they are beat. Here, he decides to go the other way and turn his hand into a bluff. But what makes the bluff so believable is that his bets on the flop and turn were not bluffs.

Not an easy one to sniff out without live tells.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 02:46 PM
Sizing from villain is strange (smallish) on every street given the number of draws out there, would consider putting in a raise on the turn

River villain is mostly repping a3 with diamonds, 63 with or without, sizing is very odd again but its still prob a fold vs most opponents.. prob not vs someone you describe as spazzy
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 03:59 PM
I would actually consider folding this on the flop quite often, definitely on the turn. Your playing super deep stacked here....if we just had 100BBs its and easy reship but we get away from this early to avoid the spot we are put in on the turn and river here...

If your good on the river here, this villain is a massive fish.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 04:10 PM
Folding flop or turn as played is unthinkable.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 04:15 PM
grunch

At low stakes, when somebody raises flop then bets two streets for almost full pot, you're beaten. 55 and 44 are the most likely hands, like you said Ad3d also possible but only 1 combo. Regardless, V is never betting for value with worse, and so our final question must be, can V be bluffing? I don't think any low stakes villain is bluffing nearly enough to make calling here profitable.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator
Folding flop or turn as played is unthinkable.
Why? The only reason to call turn and fold river is if you believe he only has 36. Or you just don't expect him to triple barrel something that we beat. But some players just never stop betting.

So, what really changes on the river? 36 gets there. That's it. So if we felt we were ahead on the turn, we need to call river.

Which is why I said I would consider folding turn. Because look where we are in the hand now.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 09:01 PM
Yea having AQdd puts him in such a strong position here, as he can basically play it like he has the nuts. For what its worth, if you felt his river sizing made 0 sense, then it might be worth a call, and I would note that he thinks on a pretty simple level. The scarier players are the ones that aren't afraid to mask value bets with somewhat unusual bet sizing, as 250BB bets are pretty freaking rare.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 09:09 PM
Of course, he could just be trying to level you and had A3dd :P
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-06-2016 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k
Why? The only reason to call turn and fold river is if you believe he only has 36. Or you just don't expect him to triple barrel something that we beat. But some players just never stop betting.

So, what really changes on the river? 36 gets there. That's it. So if we felt we were ahead on the turn, we need to call river.

Which is why I said I would consider folding turn. Because look where we are in the hand now.
You can call the turn and fold the river this deep. Its really not a problem at all. You call the turn and evaluate the river.

You have to give V a range with almost zero draws in order to justify folding OTF and OTT.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-08-2016 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator
You can call the turn and fold the river this deep. Its really not a problem at all. You call the turn and evaluate the river.

You have to give V a range with almost zero draws in order to justify folding OTF and OTT.
Agreed - I know this V will double barrel all this draws after he has x/r flop. I think it's terrible for me to fold. And yes if we only had 200bb I just GII OTF but this deep I felt a call is fine.

To people asking about V's tenancies to triple Barr or x/r flops (yes with many draw combos), not often 3 barreling from what ive seen. Maybe couple drunken 'mad' moments, but never a 250BB bet. But the part that I can't get out of my head was his sizing - I can't see him ever betting more than 400 OTR for value. Had he bet 250 - 350 I would have found it a lot easier to fold - just accepting he had a set or maybe the lucky A3dd
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote
09-08-2016 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie4444
Hero - playing game for about 1 hour, running well...only two showdowns in larger pots and picked up few smaller pots also. Built stack from 550 to 1,000 in that time.

V - a regular who tends to drink a lot when he plays and can be super spewy, however, he seems to be sober and playing tight in this game so far.

Game: 1/2
500 BBs effective

Hand:

Hero: (As, Ac)
UTG+1 and HJ limp
Hero: raise to 12 in CO

V in BB calls, both players in MP also call

FLOP (49) - 5d, Qh, 4d
V (BB who has about 1,300 in his stack) - check
UTG +1 - check
HJ - check
Hero: bets 31
BB: raises to 80
UTG+1 and HJ fold
Hero: flats 80

TURN (209) - 10s
BB: Bets 150
Hero: Tanks for 10-15 seconds and flats

RIVER (509) - 2h
BB: bets 500
Hero?

The main hands I'm scared of here are pocket 4s and 5s, A,3DD is also very possible with this V. He never has pocket queens.

I think my hand is a bit face up when I just flat turn given the draw combos out there (unless im slowing playing QQ)...am I making a mistake not raising flop or turn?

Thoughts welcome - thanks!
Not many villains @ 1/2 are capable of running a big bluff like this. The ones that are would most likely bail out on an offsuit 2 river when the flush misses.

In my games recently even the fish are trying to make "fishy big bets" to get paid off with value hands.

I'm folding this river.
ACES IN 3! POT FACING PSB RIVER BET - 500BB DEEP Quote

      
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