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Old 09-15-2018, 01:38 AM   #1
grimorum
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Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Blinds are 1-2-2
Minimum to play a hand is $5
Loose deep pocket player always straddle with $10
Since he straddled, minimum to play a hand became $20

Tight player - Short Stack = $130 (button)
Loose player - Deep stack = $1800 (to the left of the button somewhere)
Tight player - Hero = $900 (to the immediate right seat of button)

Hero has Ace King offsuit and is the first to call $20
Short Stack shoved all in $130
Deep stack calls $130

1. Would you call $130 and why? You will have last position post flop
2. Would you fold to the tight short stack player?
3. Raise? How Much? What to do when no ace/king on the flop?
4. Would you all in $900? Loose deep stack might fold because I play very tight

If I knew short stack has pocket queen and deep stack will fold, is it profitable to go all in with Ace/King in the long run? Equity question here.

Which of the four options would you do and why?

Last edited by grimorum; 09-15-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:05 AM   #2
setintostraight
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

1. Yes I'm calling - with position, while holding AK I want to see all 5 cards.

2. Is this a serious question? I mean this isn't exactly a 5-10 game, but I think on average it plays like 2-5, so if you're asking if I'm folding AK for 26BB - the answer is no. It's worth it if only for improving my table image.

If I had a read that he only does this with QQ+ and is heavily weighted towards KK/AA, then yes, I'd consider it.

3. I'm not raising this above $130. By doing so any hands we might be dominating will probably fold (AQs, KQs) and we'll only get snapped off by better

4. How loose is loose? That's not much of a read. I would like to see some prior hand history before I blindly go from $20 to $900 with AKo. Do you think we have to shove now instead of flop to have any fold equity?

The reason I say this is that _everyone_ tightens up when the betting escalates 10x or 20x.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:12 AM   #3
Viral25
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimorum View Post
Blinds are 1-2-2
Minimum to play a hand is $5
Loose deep pocket player always straddle with $10
Since he straddled, minimum to play a hand became $20
First of all, this format is weird.

Secondly, you need to realize with the straddle and the 20$ "call", we are essentially playing 10-20, so we are only 45bb deep. Getting AK in vs a loose player for 45bb and a tight player for 6.5bb is pretty standard imo. Specially if we have fold equity.

Also, why are we just calling the 20 in late position with AK? are you not allowed to raise in this format? If you can raise, it seems like a really big mistake not to.

Quote:
If I knew short stack has pocket queen and deep stack will fold, is it profitable to go all in with Ace/King in the long run? Equity question here.
Clearly yes, because the deep stack has put in another 130, which means we are risking 130 to win 260 and need 33% to break even. If deep stack always folds, we have ~45% vs the shorty's QQ and printing money.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:23 AM   #4
grimorum
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

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Originally Posted by Viral25 View Post

Also, why are we just calling the 20 in late position with AK? are you not allowed to raise in this format? If you can raise, it seems like a really big mistake not to.
.
I am the tightest player on the table. When I raise, everyone folds.
Since learning this, I have mostly done check/raise or call/reraise.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:38 AM   #5
Viral25
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimorum View Post
I am the tightest player on the table. When I raise, everyone folds.
Since learning this, I have mostly done check/raise or call/reraise.
Gobbledygeek, is this your troll account?

Limping AK doesn't make you any less tighter, it just makes you easier to play against.
You are losing value AND fold equity at the same time.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:55 AM   #6
grimorum
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

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Originally Posted by Viral25 View Post
Gobbledygeek, is this your troll account?

Limping AK doesn't make you any less tighter, it just makes you easier to play against.
You are losing value AND fold equity at the same time.
It seems to work so far as a tight short stack player
limping AK seems to works against loose players.
This is a tight/aggressive tactic.

1/3 of the time, I limp in with AK, then reraise.
Half the times, I take the money unchallenged
25% of the time, I go against AQ or KQ
25% of the time, I go against med pockets

As the tightest player, if I raise pre-flop, I often fail to build a pot.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:40 AM   #7
Askesis
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimorum View Post
It seems to work so far as a tight short stack player
limping AK seems to works against loose players.
This is a tight/aggressive tactic.

1/3 of the time, I limp in with AK, then reraise.
Half the times, I take the money unchallenged
25% of the time, I go against AQ or KQ
25% of the time, I go against med pockets

As the tightest player, if I raise pre-flop, I often fail to build a pot.
Of course people fold when you raise...you don't even raise AK! The adjustment to make to the problem of never getting action when you raise is not raising even less often.

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Old 09-15-2018, 09:15 AM   #8
Jay S
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimorum View Post
I am the tightest player on the table. When I raise, everyone folds.
Since learning this, I have mostly done check/raise or call/reraise.
Try raising more often, not less often.
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:03 PM   #9
grimorum
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
Try raising more often, not less often.
I tried it in the past and I do get more action, but I can't read anyone even after 3 years....
For the past month, I have been playing a lot more tighter and just play short stack and use odds/equity to decide my plays.

Maybe I am just a bad reader. I am winning a little bit now, maybe $1 an hour lol.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:28 PM   #10
Minatorr
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

Shove
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:01 PM   #11
WereBeer
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Re: Ace/King vs all in short stack and loose deep pocket

I think shove is best. With our image we probably fold everything except KK/AA which we block, only thing is the overcall/shove looks more suspicious than open raise/shove.
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