So this is a line check more than anything else, I don't really run into this situation often if at all...

1/2 NLHE match the stack in Houston, 10/hr time rake

Villain: ($450) Late twenties white guy, told hero a couple minutes earlier its his first time playing live outside of a home game with friends, who knows if its true but he did seem openly nervous and clueless.

Hero: ($700) 30 yo white guy. Moved to this table 10 minutes ago, no real image.

OTTH:

3 limps including V on the button, small blind folds

Hero has Ah As in the BB and raises to $25

folds to V who calls

Flop: ($55) Jd 8h 5h

Hero c-bets $35

V min check raises to $70

Hero calls

Turn: ($195) Jd 8h 5h 3s

Hero checks

V bets $30

Hero tanks about 30 seconds, decides this is was not for value and is scared top/middle pair that will check back the river or a draw setting its own price.

Hero raises to $125 for value (thoughts??)

V tanks 30 seconds and calls

River: ($445) Jd 8h 5h 3s 2c

Hero?

Is this to thin of a spot to go for value

If not whats your sizing?

Thoughts were that all the draws missed so we can really only get called by top pair and hands that beat us.

(V has a little over $200 behind)

When he minclicked the flop back at you did he do it pretty fast, or take 20-30 seconds there too?
I probably jam river AP regardless of your answer.
Could probably size up or even jam turn if you wanted.
He has so much more that you beat than you don’t.
The thing that sucks is in my experience, these kinds of weird lines are super polarizing.
It’s either a rec playing a prime value hand totally screwy, or a rec massively misplaying a medium strength hand.

He didn’t check raise flop. He just raised flop. And people will tend to do this with a more linear range, since they can always check a later street.

Given the board isn’t conducive to a lot of random two pairs and has tons of free card play raises, it’s an easy 3 bet to like 165 and jam most turns. Especially with Ah backup.

As played, against that size the small raise seems okay. And I’d definitely jam on that blank river.

This being said, if we played flop better, we can be all in by the turn. Or we deny him of his equity. Either way, our flop play wasn’t good and this guy bailed us out of a disaster situation with his pointless turn bet. Because you’re right, if he had a real hand, why would he bet so small?

Yes, this guy is probably a home game fish and sometimes they show up with hands you’d never expect. But if he can play J8o this way, he can probably also show up with any jack.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m personally in favor, OOP, of holding our nose and going for the jugular against players like this. I mean if we just go into calldown mode, he wins a big pot off of us anyway when he has a big hand, and we miss value against the middling stuff. At least by going for value, we maximize against that portion of hands.

And of course, when none of those mediocre made hands improve on this runout, we should feel better about it all going in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From someone in a home game? I feel like this is QJ specifically. Not AJ, and not KJ, but QJ.

I'm half kidding, don't think we can range him so precisely but my point is that players who know a little about poker but are still pretty new to the game over value their top pairs like this. AJ is comfortable while QJ wants to be certain of where they are at, so small bet.

Agree that you should reraise flop. More likely to this player to over leverage himself with TPGK or a FD. Then when he thinks he's pot committed shove on turn.

FWIW, I think this player shoves turn with a set, maybe 2p as well, so AP, I think you should be safe to shove the river. Problem with waiting till river is now V has no chance at redraw. A player like we think we have here doesn't really understand odds, so they'll call wide but fold when they can no longer bink. He might fold his QJ, and will definitely fold his FDs or SDs OTR. Catch him with cards to come.

Based on your read, yes bet river for value. If you think villain is more likely to be on a draw or just not that confident in your read, check to induce bluff is fine.

Ya, I agree. OOP I like a 3! OTF best.
I was also thrown off by the wording of OP and how it says V checkraised flop, which changes things of course.
3! flop, jam turn is best imo.

Wow, not sure why I wrote check raise. Lack of sleep and its effects on the human mind are real.