1/2 Ultra deep and quite a loose game. Hard to figure out weather the players are mostly donkey's or really know what their doing. Lots of gambling going on anyway.

Villain 1(1000$) I have nicknamed him the sea bass. Mostly due to his fishy tendencies to call any raise very light pre-flop and the willingness to stack off with TPTK kicker hands on most flops. He does however seem to be quite experienced and turns up with the goods quit often. Never seen him bluff yet over three day's of play. Not very imaginative.

Villain 2(600$): Doesn't seem out of the ordinary at this table. Has a slightly higher tendency then most players to pay 50+ for gut shots.

Other Villains - present but not relevant

Hero(280$) - At this stage I probably had a super nitty image. I had been card dead for the past 2 hours. My stack has been chipped away a bit at this point.


Action opens with


UTG - Bet - 10$
UTG +1 Hero - AxAx - Raise 30$
UTG +2 - Calls
SB Villain 1 - Calls
BB - Villain 2 - Calls
UTG - Calls


Flop (150$)

Jx9x3x

SB Villain 1 - Bets 80$
BB Villain 2 Calls
UTG - Folds
Hero AA???? The pot is about the size of my stack at this point?

Do we have to just close our eyes and shove?

What do you think is the best way of dealing with a game like this? Buying in super deep and waiting to flop monsters? Or buying in lighter(100BB) and pushing the edge with better hands pre-flop and getting it in in similar situations. Think there is an edge to be had with lighter stacks in super deep games but then again provided I was beaten on this flop with a deeper stack I would have saved myself 180 pounds by folding to a large raise on the turn or river.

so is this flop rainbow, has two of the same suit, or is it monotone? if its either of the first two, i shove flop. if its monotone, its tough but shoving is probably the best play (you cant flat, but folding isnt terrible either). 3bet to $40 if they're that loose. if they all still call, 3bet to $50. if they all fold, keep it at $40. the goal is to get it down to one or two callers but sometimes you will either get a ton of calls or no calls, so just raise to the max theyd call pre.

I shove the flop every time.

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In this loose a game where you cant get it heads up pre, buying in for 100 to 150bb is probably better. your stack is shallow enough to get it in quickly with TPTK/overpairs against 3+ villains. and they just wont outflop you often enough if you open raise to 10bb pre. the problem with buying in super deep is even most very loose villains will be alot more reluctant to stack off when 200+bb deep and you can be put in a lot of tough spots playing against several loose villains at the same time.

Not happy with action, but I'm not folding AA here unless board is monotone and I don't have that suit.

As for playing super deep in general? A lot depends on which way you are best playing. If you want to play LAG then 100BB is probably better because your going to be pushing a lot of thin edges multiway. If your better playing TAG, then the deeper the better. Keep in mind at these super deep games you can't just wait for the nuts. You need to keep an aggressive enough image that villains are willing to put money in when you bet. You need to carefully judge pot size against hand strength and villain's range. If your not familiar with deep play, then buying in as one of the shorter stacks until your more comfortable at the table is a good idea.

Never folding flop unless it's J93 monotone and we don't have the Ace of that suit

so you 3! and you got four callers? that is not how that is supposed to go. looks like you could have made it 50 pre.

you are only 250 deep. this is shove or fold all day....... and none of your V's look nitty enough to consider folding against, so...............GII

Starting the hand pre with AA and 56 BB, there is only one plan to have and that is to GII on most flops and this is a very good flop for you - so insta-fist-pump-shove here.

As a TAG in this game, learn to squeeze in position, in the SB and BB.

I used to play 60BB starting stack in a similar game and found all sorts of good spots to GII light. In these games, look for a person that will open from any position with their whole opening range, then 2 or 3 that will come along with almost their whole calling range and you will find squeezing with 88+, AJo+ very profitable.

If you don't know which boards to bluff at when multiway in this game with connectors and gappers, save your money pre- because otherwise you will just spew chips bit by bit in this game waiting for trips, 2 pair or a strong combo - draw.

Float people with a fold button who don't like heat with their one pair hands and raise turns, bet second and third pairs that paired the board and scare cards A/K/Q that come on the Turn. Try to identify people that are scared by the absolute value of the bet and make sure your bluffs will cost them a lot when it is clear that they have a TP, good or weak kicker. This also sets up your value hands where you can bet pot, 80% of pot, GII on the River plays.

I will also lead flush draws (and gutshot draws - on crappy flops that are not too likely to hit V's range or when I am the PFR).

Sometimes it is even clear that nobody will fight for a big pot when there are too many people in the hand pre - eg, you are button and the raised pot goes 6 way pre ($150). Board is 1042R and it checks to you. You bet $110 and see 5 insta-mucks.

Yeah I'm getting it all in unless a monotone board. I feel like 2 pair or better hands would let you the pre-flop raiser lead, and then they would check-raise.

Why don't you have an opinion on what his donk reps? Monsters/TopTop/Weak-made/speculative/balanced? If you don't remember him donking then that is good info too.

Grunch.

This is basically a fist pump get it in spot. If they flopped a set or J9 for the only two pair combo then GG reload.

After reading the first 2 lines, the grammar hurt my eyes and I couldn't read the rest.

If this is a game where you either get zero callers or four callers, would you rather get four callers on a raise to 30 or four callers on a raise to 50?

problem is you have one more player behind you left to act, I don't think shoving is bad, but another option would be to call and look for a non k,q,t, or j then shove. also if there is a lot of heat on turn, bet raise you can easily fold.

This is not deep. You don't even have 150 big blinds. You said V1 stacks off light and V2 is a station, and you don't know what to do?

If you ever play in low-buy-in tournaments, you know you eventually, inevitably get to the point where the blinds are so big relative to your stack that your only option is to go all in or fold. So you sit there waiting for a good enough hand to shove before you get blinded out.

Short stack play in a cash game is a little like that, except you have all night to wait for the right hand. You're still basically waiting for a hand to go all in with, but you don't have the time pressure.

Obviously you don't want to just open shove, you want to size your opening raise so that if you get a x number of callers, the pot will be the right size to shove on a later street. If you're first to bet, 10% of your stack will typically be about right to set you up for a shove on a later street, you just have to figure out your flop bet based on the number of callers. You had it easier here, with the ability to 3bet. Worked out perfectly. But, to be clear about it, the plan is to get it all in, best way you can.

You can literally be pot-committed in a tournament, meaning literally not have enough chips to play the next hand effectively. You're only pot-committed in a cash game if you want to be, and I'm glad to see some discussion about getting out of Dodge if the situation warrants. You don't have to close your eyes.

Short stacking is definitely one way to approach a game like this. You just have to be patient and understand the concept. I tried short-stacking for a while, and quit because I wasn't patient enough. Then I went back to it, because sometimes I should be more patient, at least until I figure out what's going on at the table. Knowing how to play short stacked is a powerful tool imo

This is a shove at this table imo.

There is no need to change your buy in or game strategy at a table like this. Their $ is there for the taking. Show up rolled, hopefully. Buy in normally. Play solid TAG. Gii good a ton. If someone outflops your AA you or hits a naked FD, buy back.

100bb buy in and TAG play are both tailor made for these tables.

50.

makes our decision much much easier, because then we know that we are never folding.