call, shove turn except a 10 we can probably fold

anyother card i call, shove turn

raising flop and getting it in isnt bad either but i like a calldown as out hand is underreped which is good in position

raising actually overreps our hand and could make him fold

If anything I've learned from the "Vets" on 2+2, especially the "real" experienced LIVE players is:

1. 99.9% of 1-3, 1-2 and lower players are level 1 players (they just think about what they have and don't even consider what you might have)

2. What our perception of our villains are, changes as we gain more knowledge and experience

3. Raising preflop won't kill further action, whether he thinks you have AA, AK or not. "I've got KINGS...OMG...I've got a monster"

So with that said, whether the villain is solid or not, what does that make him, "he's really good at knowing his own hand!! ... and knowing what to do with it?!??? ..or so he thinks"

He's an animal, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

My point is, you decided not to 3bet pre, so you can't have MUBS syndrome (monsters under the bed), you can't automatically assume he has the nuts no matter what you think "that nuts" might be...capeeeesch? (to real Italian guys, excuse my spelling )

I look at what he did and I don't interpret the villain's play AND thoughts as, "oh, yea..I've confused the hero now."....no, no....in fact his play is, "I've got Kings..whoooopee, I'll get this sucker!" and NOTE: he's not even thinking about what you have and if he is, he's only putting you on one hand, probably AK. He's not putting you on a range at all.

The "real" Vets know and have taught me, this kind of bet could very likely be the nuts but then again...how many of these LLNL players overvalue their hand or use their LEVEL 1 ADVANTAGE THINKING and feel they have you beat, end of story stupidity. I've seen it both ways.

But if you're going to smooth call, then you can't be scuuuurred on the flop.

All my mentors taught me in the beginning; don't get fancy, don't slow play and quit seeing MUBs.

So my suggestion OP, next time, play it straight, 3bet pre the best hand and watch that solid player, num-nuts give you his stack.


p.s.
my post is coming off a bit cocky, but that's not my intention...it's more of wanting to get a few people to chuckle. I'm still learning like you OP but many guys have helped me and that's what I'm doing here for you. All I do is play live and trust me, that so called solid player...he AIN'T ALL THAT SOLID!

Mixing up your play is fine. I think at lower levels as many have said that fancy play gets you in more trouble. That being said I think your biggest problem was not playing ahead. You flat called to be deceptive, but had no plan for the flop or even later streets. For all we know the villain could of had small pp, sc, Broadway cards, etc. Obviously until he showed or told you later. You need to try to range his hands before the flop bc its easy to say yep he has the nuts when range after. If he really did flop a monster straight or trips wouldn't he want to get value out of it and not over bet the pot? Just my two cents. It takes time, but remember we tell a story with our actions and to me his didn't make any sense from what little information we had.

Hey! Didn't respond for a while as have been very busy, but thanks for all the responses. Other than the to be expected message board flaming, there was a lot of great advice in here that I definitely have taken to heart in the last month or so.

Oh man, I'm glad I visited this thread. Feel sorry for the reaming OP got.

Folding flop or stacking off here is fine either way and is close to neutral EV. You have 52% against JJ+, 99, AQ and 58% against JJ+, AQ and 44% against JJ+

3bet pre obviously. Against some bad players who will fold to big 3bets but call small ones and they're bad enough they can't hand read well or they just can't fold overpairs/tptk post flop, 3bet to $50 pre. Otherwise I think a 3bet to $65 is standard here with your stack