Hey yall,

1/2
Eff stack: 250 hero&villian

Villian is a 60+ year old woman who is a dealer at another local casino (assuming poker?) Shes only been at the table for a few orbits, has shown to be very aggressive opening a 5 way limped pot from the SB with KQo, flatting a small Limp reraise (21ish) and leading an 689hh flop. bet was a bit on the small side around 1/4 pot.

Hero and V have no history together.

Hero picks up AdAh in the CO
2 limps.
Hero bets 12
V in SB calls
2 others call

FLOP($50): KT3R

checked to hero who bets 40
V check raises min.
folds to hero who calls

Turn($210): Qd

V leads for 100.
Hero?
Remaining stack is aprox 160

Shove flop. As played prolly call?

With two limpers, raise more the 12. I think you can raise to 17 to 20 and still get action. I think her check min raise range has a lot of one pair hands. She may show up the kt sometimes, but I don't think we can ever fold. If you reraise flop she may find a fold with her weak kings. I like flating and then getting it in on the turn.

Raise more pre. Shove flop. I'm not folding.

you have a SPR of around 4.5 when your min raised on the flop you have to shove here, the fact that she bet 1/4 pot on the other hand you posted make me think that she knows if she bets small her bluff needs to work way less than if she raised you big. which is why i think the min raise is a rather weak play. after she leads out on the turn im not sure what to do would love to hear from other people but the queen is a bad card putting up straight possiblities and probably making her two pair on that board. you have like 70% equity on the turn

shove flop, she probably snaps you with KQ, which looks like what she had to me.

Why is the consensus to shove flop?

I'd flat flop. I don't want to give her a chance to fold her weak draw or weak king

I agree i dont like your small pre flop raise, and also agree to shove flop 100%.

First, you said that shes been agressive. Only there for a few hands. It is a 60 year old lady! You cant let grandma push you around!

Sure, She can have KT or 33. But besides that. There are so many hands that you are ahead of in this spot!

QJ, KQ, (Any weak K she is probably min raising with assuming shes ahead)

You are 100% not folding. So why make the decision harder on yourself, and wait to see what the turn is! It is a rainbow flop. exactly what you wanted. Shove it all in and put the pressure on grandma!

I like the shove flop idea because based on your description of V - K, 10 is smack dab in the middle of her range.
If a Q shows up on the turn, you won't know where you're at. She could have 2 pair or a made straight.
Oh wait, a Q is the turn card.
Now what do we do?

I'd rather get it all in on the flop when I believe I'm ahead of her range - and force her to make a mistake by calling off her stack. The way the hand plays out, it's not likely that she has KK since she didn't reraise or AK (since you have two Aces). But it's possible she flopped a set of Tens - but if so, there's nothing you can do about that.

Now with a Q on the board - and she's betting 100... with just 60 behind, I think you have to find a fold here.

Once you call the min-raise your essentially committed to pot. When that is the case, you want to make your decision on the flop and go with it.

When villain min raises there are four possibilities.
1: Villain is on a total air bluff. Very few villains will do this, but they do exist.
2: Villain is finding out where they are with a weak hand. If this is the case as soon as you call villain is done with hand unless they hit two pair+.
3: Villain is drawing. In this case villain is trying to keep you from betting big by making a scary move, and you need to charge them to draw.
4: Your crushed. Villain flopped 2 pair or a set.

Which is most likely is heavily villain dependent, but the description you gave and situation make me lean towards 2 or 3 more then 1 or 4. 1 is very rare no matter what, and even less likely given the action and short stacks, 4 is less likely with short effective stacks as villain doesn't need to inflate the pot. Overly aggressive villains tend to be the ones that use 2 or 3. With some history you may be able to tell which villain is on. Most who make these min raises are terrible and many are always doing it for the same reason. In this case though, your just going to have to make a read and go with it. From here, shoving seems like the best option though.

I would only flat the min raise if I planned on shoving pretty much all turn cards.
This would be useful against someone who over plays top pair but is likely to raise/fold
(lol what?... with 125bb stacks...) top pair here when I shove the flop.

If I think they are on a draw I would just shove the flop. It's only $160 more to call into a $400 pot or so. Should be a good price for whatever they are holding.

I would fold to the flop check raise if I didn't plan to commit on most (all?) turn cards, and feel fine about it.

These are all villain dependent though.
Given description of V here I'd stick it in on the turn. Wouldn't be surprised to see KQ/QJ/KJ/AK here. Obv sets as well (but only 33, never KK/TT), and KT.

Also, pre seems a bit too small. Normally we can get fat value by raising more. $15-$17 normally gets it done with the same number of callers (or even preferably less) and makes us more in the long run.

Against this villain (lol at that KQ hand), I think shoving flop for value is the best play.

Turn isn't the greatest, but we aren't deep enough to fold this once we've put in 40% of effective stacks and against a spewy villain. Shove turn.

+1

SPR: 4.7
Villains Range based on PF and C/R the Flop: AK, TT, 33, QJ, KT. Would she do this with complete air? Probably not.
After calling flop you’ve put in $92 which is 36% of your stack.

If you call the flop, you must know that she will likely bet the turn. There is no point (unless I’m missing something) in calling the flop and then folding the turn. So when you call the flop, you must know that you are committed to the hand. When you called the flop, what was your plan for the turn. We must always have a plan. I know I’m guilty of not planning my hands, but we need to do this.

Being that the SPR was a little under 5 on the flop, I’m fine going with the hand here, if she has a set so be it. On the flop, I’m fine calling if we know we are going with the hand; this keeps her AK, QJ, and airballs in.

Depending on your image and how the table is playing .. probably more preFlolp.

Flop bet size is good multi-way. I never really like the min-raise folks too much but I do both shove and flat here. When they lead the Turn like that I can fold some of the time ... even face up ... and then I tell them if they want to get chips from me let me put them in the middle. This will ususally lead to a show and then you know where you were at.

With this V being a dealer she knows what a min-raise usually means, strength, and might be exploiting that fact right now but with both a min-raise and essentially a shove here I don't like to pay this off. I know that probably is a waste of chips when flatting the Flop min-raise but I'd rather Turn a set and pay off a straight or just shove the Flop instead of flatting then paying off a made hand. GL

Could you explain this a bit more? It's likely that she is going to lead the turn after check-raising the flop, so why call the flop and then fold the turn? You mentioned turning a set, but we only have an 4% chance of doing that on the turn.

I just don't really get what the point of shoving the flop is. Are we shoving the flop for value? If so we need to have her call with weaker hands which would be AK, KQ, KJ, any other King, and the QJ draw.

Are we shoving the to shut down draws? Yes, she'll probably fold QJ, but with our two blockers, do we really need to worry about shutting down this draw?

Right now we are way ahead or way behind, right? Obviously shoving the flop says we are going with the hand, and if we are going with the hand anyway, why not just call the min-raise and then shove over her bet on the turn? This keeps all the hands that were are currently beating in.

If we shove the flop, we are obviously going with the hand, and will only fold out her AK, QJ draw, and weaker Kings.

The reason you shove flop is because once you call that minraise, you've essentially made your decision. You aren't getting to the river without stacking off, so why not stack off when you have the best chance of being ahead? Get value by any K or pair+draw, etc. If she has KT, or a set, it is what it is. Or fold to the min-raise lol.

I was actually thinking of folding to the min-raise. a CR here looks really strong to me and I don't think this is in her bluffing range. Her range looks to me like 33,tt,KT or AK/KQ. I don't think we are ahead of her range that often in this spot. Is this too nitty?

Yes, I agree. So if we've already made our decision why not just call and let her fire the turn and essentially let her make a mistake by committing to this pot if she only has a K. (see more below)

If you are going to stack off anyway, who cares if you have the "best chance of being ahead" on the flop. By shoving this flop you aren't guaranteeing that she will stack off with a K or a hand like QJ. I believe you have a much better chance of stacking off on the turn if she'll fire the turn and make a committment mistake with only a K.

So by saying this then you are shoving the flop for value. You are expecting her to call with any K or a pair+draw. There aren't any pair+draw hands. Given the action, the only drawing hand is QJ.

Pot is (50+40+80) when she C/R. Shoving gives here gives her pot odds of (50+40+80+198):158 or 2.3:1. Do you really believe she is going to call off her stack here (125bb) with TPTK (AK) or TPGK (KQ).

I think by calling the flop and letting her bet the turn (since we already know we are getting it in) is a much better way to extract value from a K. It's not like there are a lot of cards that come on the turn that cool the action if she plans on stacking off.

Yes I firmly believe she calls off her stack with AK/KQ here 80% of the time. It's how you beat these stakes imo, getting these players to commit with hands they don't realize the relative strength with. I'd rather get it in AA v KQ on the flop, before she actually hits her Q because it's +EV then call a minraise and let her catch up and get her money in when she's ahead. Who knows if she's willing to stack off if she doesn't improve on the turn? I do know she's willing to stack off on the flop majority of the time though. Like I said HERO has made his decision to stack off by calling the min-raise but we don't know how V thinks, if unimproved does she shut down? We don't know.