Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
AA in SB against a straddle AA in SB against a straddle

08-28-2016 , 12:16 AM
Title says SB, should say BB.

Game: 5/5 underground, often pretty spewy.

Hero: ($1200) BB, Tight, aggressive image. Chipped up to $1200 mostly through aggression pre-flop. Hadn't lost a showdown (or even gotten to a showdown) in the hour I'd been at the table. Winning player in game that has many of the same people every time.

V1: ($700) UTG; Fish. Loose. Doubled up a few minutes earlier calling an all-in with 44 and hitting a set against JJ. Looked at me and said, "I thought I would be racing."

V2: ($~600) MP; Decent player, a little LAGGY. Middle-aged Asian guy with a lot of gamble in him usually.

V3: ($~500) Btn; Deck had been hitting him in the face. Past play indicates he'll play lots of light hands. Had gotten it in multiple times with turned and rivered straights in the hour we were there. Young Latino guy.

V1 live straddles to 10. I look down at AA. V2 raises to 30. 2 callers behind, including V3. Back around to me in the BB. I make it $110 total. UTG folds. V2 and V3 call.

Flop comes K75.

First to act, I bet $250. V2 folds. V3 pushes all-in over the top for $130 or so more. I call.

1) What does he have?

2) Critique my line.

Thanks in advance, team.

Last edited by TigerPawsSC; 08-28-2016 at 12:29 AM. Reason: Correcting wrong title.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 12:51 AM
Well, I don't know what he has. I can make a guess to his range: 86 and 64 are (in my opinion the least likely. I mean I get that he might be a loose player, but to call $110 preflop with those holdings would be next level maniac. Given that he flatted a raise and then flatted a three-bet I'm putting him on KQ, possibly AK, KJ, 77 and 55. Against tighter opponents I would discount anything but AK, 77 and 55. I mean, he has to know that you're never folding to his push so I'm eliminating all bluffing hands and only counting value hands. This hand really looks like 77 to me, because he really shouldn't be showing up with very many kings and I think 55 would generally fold (at this depth 77 really should too, because you're not deep enough to set mine, but many players don't realize that).

I think the line you took was fine. I might have three bet a little bigger, to the $150 range or so, but I don't think in this particular hand it would have made much of a difference. As I said, I think it really looks like 77, but you're never folding for that price and if he hit a set on you then he's just going to get the money. I don't see any mistakes in your play, if you lost the hand it's just variance.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 01:37 AM
Not enough PF, too much post. Now call the shove and expect to win a good amount of the time.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Not enough PF, too much post. Now call the shove and expect to win a good amount of the time.
Assuming you're in my spot, what are you betting in those two spots? The $150 mentioned above PF?

Roughly $375 in the pot post-flop, what are you betting?

I'll admit that pre-flop, I was a little wary of chasing everyone away. Probably 15 minutes earlier, in the exact same scenario (BB with a straddle out in front of me), I looked down at the exact same black Aces. Tons of calls to the staddle, and I raised it to $50 only to have it fold around. So I think I was probably being tentative pre-flop because of the weirdness of the situation happening again (even though the action looked different).

I started to bet more like $200 post-flop, but decided to push out more for a reason I'm not certain of. In retrospect, against better players, that $250 is the sort of bet getting jammed by hands that beat me and folds by hands I beat. And with the board being pretty dry, I didn't have a lot of push-out need at that moment.

Admittedly I play so few hands from early position these days that I'm a little uncomfortable with my lead-out bet sizing.

At what $$$ figure would you have made those bets?
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 03:33 AM
looks fine. great even. count your money
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 04:38 AM
We can prob bet this flop smaller without it hurting us at all, maybe set up a bet/fold range for other hands. Given the stacks though we are bet/calling anything. I'd say we could go as small as 150 and there are only a handful of hands that villains have that benefit.

Also, even though you could raise more preflop, I think its acceptable. If your opponents were deeper it becomes more of a problem.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC

Game: 5/5 underground, often pretty spewy.


1) What does he have?

Who cares. If he flopped a set, then pay the man his moneyz.

2) Critique my line.

You got all the money in with AA on a king board. Perfect outcome. $200 OTF is probably better sizing, but your line is good.
.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 03:33 PM
V3 showed ...

76o.

Mental note to play at his table way more often.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 03:59 PM
I thought this would be a "look at this nonsense V showed up with" thread. We can't really guess what a loose V's range is pre-flop after flatting twice. I've seen people show up with all sorts of stuff.

The majority of LLSNL seems to have a strong aversion to ever betting less than 1/2 pot, but IMO you should here. The board is super dry and there are almost no hands we fear giving cheap cards to. A small bet encourages V to call with more hands we crush, and Kx is always GII no matter what we bet. I'd GII over two streets, bet $135 int $370 and jam 100% of turns.

Sizing pre is fine due to stack sizes being short, I think.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
I thought this would be a "look at this nonsense V showed up with" thread. We can't really guess what a loose V's range is pre-flop after flatting twice. I've seen people show up with all sorts of stuff.

The majority of LLSNL seems to have a strong aversion to ever betting less than 1/2 pot, but IMO you should here. The board is super dry and there are almost no hands we fear giving cheap cards to. A small bet encourages V to call with more hands we crush, and Kx is always GII no matter what we bet. I'd GII over two streets, bet $135 int $370 and jam 100% of turns.

Sizing pre is fine due to stack sizes being short, I think.
I think you're probably right. Smaller bet there might have pulled V2 in for a call (hard to know what his pre-flop straddle raise/flat range is given how little I know about him) and then still gotten the jam from V3 on the flop anyway. Or maybe both Vs flat, then I shove the turn.

It was a weird spot. I think in the future, I probably more in the $150-$200 range OTF.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-28-2016 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC
Assuming you're in my spot, what are you betting in those two spots? The $150 mentioned above PF?

Roughly $375 in the pot post-flop, what are you betting?

I'll admit that pre-flop, I was a little wary of chasing everyone away. Probably 15 minutes earlier, in the exact same scenario (BB with a straddle out in front of me), I looked down at the exact same black Aces. Tons of calls to the staddle, and I raised it to $50 only to have it fold around. So I think I was probably being tentative pre-flop because of the weirdness of the situation happening again (even though the action looked different).

I started to bet more like $200 post-flop, but decided to push out more for a reason I'm not certain of. In retrospect, against better players, that $250 is the sort of bet getting jammed by hands that beat me and folds by hands I beat. And with the board being pretty dry, I didn't have a lot of push-out need at that moment.

Admittedly I play so few hands from early position these days that I'm a little uncomfortable with my lead-out bet sizing.

At what $$$ figure would you have made those bets?
I can't say for sure my sizing is any more correct than yours from any perspective, so Id like only to suggest that you find purpose/reasoning behind your sizing choices with consideration for how it impacts the current street, all subsequent streets, and manipulates ranges.

Here, pre, I wanted to bet more for a few reasons, but primarily because I need to get more value/hope to narrow the LAGgy 2b than allow him to get what likely will wind up being 4-1 on a call (when other two are pulled in for $80 more) with a wide range while in position against my narrow one, with $600+ behind.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote
08-29-2016 , 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
I can't say for sure my sizing is any more correct than yours from any perspective, so Id like only to suggest that you find purpose/reasoning behind your sizing choices with consideration for how it impacts the current street, all subsequent streets, and manipulates ranges.

Here, pre, I wanted to bet more for a few reasons, but primarily because I need to get more value/hope to narrow the LAGgy 2b than allow him to get what likely will wind up being 4-1 on a call (when other two are pulled in for $80 more) with a wide range while in position against my narrow one, with $600+ behind.
Thanks. I think your reasoning is good.

One reason I bet a little less pre-flop was that I wanted to induce a raise from V2 if he had one in him. This game can get a little wild pre-flop. Because he had raised a straddle, I hoped a smaller bet might make him think I was trying to push him off of his raise because I knew that he could make a weaker raise given the straddle.

I was truly hoping he'd jam on me with his KK or QQ. I'd seen both TT and 44 shoved that that table for $300+ during the last 30 minutes.

Obviously didn't work out that way.
AA in SB against a straddle Quote

      
m