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AA on paired board, fold river? AA on paired board, fold river?

01-19-2015 , 01:38 PM
Hi guys its my first thread here.

Playing 1/2 No Limit at Foxwoods. Villain is new to the table has not shown down any hands. Late 30s blue collar dressed working man.

Im in the CO and i look down to see two red aces. Action folds to me Preflop and I raise to 8$. The Villain who is on the Button Calls and the BB defends.

Flop (25$) J 10 8 Rainbow

BB: checks Hero: bets 15 V: calls BB folds

Turn (55$) 5d (brings back door diamond draw)

H:bets 30 V calls

River (105) J (does not complete diamonds)

H checks V bets 50.

Hero: ???

Last edited by Garick; 01-19-2015 at 01:42 PM. Reason: removed results
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:46 PM
I would have made a small blocker bet on the river around 45. Not trying to make a jack fold which would be impossible, but if he raises I would fold obviously.

If the flop was J26r then there wold be a lot more jacks (and middle pairs) in his range than the 810Jr

Last edited by Playbig2000; 01-19-2015 at 01:52 PM. Reason: wording error
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:46 PM
Not giving an unknown 1/2 credit here. You are getting 3:1 on your money here. You have to be good only 25% of the time.

Don't post results.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
I would have made a small blocker bet on the river around 45 to fold out his draws.
Why do you want to fold out his draws? We beat his draws.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:49 PM
Welcome to the forum, OP. Please don't post results, as it biases everyone's responses.

I won't comment on river, since I've seen results, but here's some feedback until then.

I generally open larger for pure value. I would go with the larger side of whatever the table considers a normal open. Don't worry that this telegraphs your hand. few Vs will notice as long as it's in the normal range for the table.

Flop is pretty wet. I bet bigger, again for pure value. I go $20.

Turn changes nothing, so I like the bet for value/charge draws.

River is usually a bet/fold to a raise spot for value, although against a blue collar guy who might bluff a missed draw, I don't mind a check/call line. I'm not checking unless I'm sure how I'm going to respond to various bet sizes, though.

AP, I'll reserve comment since I've seen results.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
Why do you want to fold out his draws? We beat his draws.
true he isn't calling a draw I'm so used to betting the river with ace high lol
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
I would have made a small blocker bet on the river around 45 to fold out his draws. Not trying to make a jack fold, but if he raises I would fold obviously.

If the flop was J26r then there wold be a lot more jacks (and middle pairs) in his range than the 810Jr
why?
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
true he isn't calling a draw I'm so used to betting the river with ace high lol
why again? ace high usually beats busted draws
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund
why again? ace high usually beats busted draws
because we're OOP. If we check to him, how many times would you be happy calling a big river bet with ace high :- /
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund
why?
what I was trying to say is because we are OOP, if we check to him he could bet pot, potx1.5, etc. which we can't call with one pair on that board. By betting out, he will (usually) only raise if he has a jack or a straight.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 02:05 PM
Yes. That's called a bet/fold, and we do it for value, though the fact that we don't have to play guessing games helps.

I wouldn't do it with ace-high very often though.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Welcome to the forum, OP. Please don't post results, as it biases everyone's responses.

I won't comment on river, since I've seen results, but here's some feedback until then.

I generally open larger for pure value. I would go with the larger side of whatever the table considers a normal open. Don't worry that this telegraphs your hand. few Vs will notice as long as it's in the normal range for the table.

Flop is pretty wet. I bet bigger, again for pure value. I go $20.

Turn changes nothing, so I like the bet for value/charge draws.

River is usually a bet/fold to a raise spot for value, although against a blue collar guy who might bluff a missed draw, I don't mind a check/call line. I'm not checking unless I'm sure how I'm going to respond to various bet sizes, though.

AP, I'll reserve comment since I've seen results.


Thank you for the input on each st. whats ur input on the river? I'm thinking that jacks make up most of his range with the way i played it?

Last edited by Garick; 01-19-2015 at 02:44 PM. Reason: removed reference to results
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 02:44 PM
Bet more on every street. $15 pre, pot the flop, pot the turn, river depends on stack sizes.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 02:45 PM
Again, I've seen results, so I won't comment. Please wait at least 24 hours before posting results. Others who haven't seen results will give comments on river as played.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 04:14 PM
I agree with those who have said your bet sizes are too small pre-flop, flop and turn. I play lots of 1/2 and my standard is $10 plus $2 per limper. This is standard and doesn't offer opponents any info on your actual hand strength. On flop and turn, in this case, I'd bet 75% to 100% of pot. Most villains won't notice when you bet full pot to charge draws. I would bet river for $50 and fold to any raise. The problem with checking is that if villain bluffs river for $75 or $100 you're in a tough spot.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 06:22 PM
As played, it is a call.

On that flop I would actually check, and then pot on the turn, AA on that flop shouldn't get more than 2 streets of value on this hand and by betting the flop you build a pot that is just too easy to get lost in, because half the deck is a bad card
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 09:01 PM
River:
We have no read. But we showed weakness on river. Alot of draws missed. A ton of 1 pair + draws missed. This would be a spot alot of 30 year old white guys would try to bluff missed draws. Maybe even value bet top pair.

We need to call $50 to win $155. Giving us roughly 3:1 on our call. We need to win 25% of the time to break even.

I definitely think you should call.!!!!

Expect to lose often here. But if we a right 50% of the time. We are showing a huge profit.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-19-2015 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage
As played, it is a call.

On that flop I would actually check, and then pot on the turn, AA on that flop shouldn't get more than 2 streets of value on this hand and by betting the flop you build a pot that is just too easy to get lost in, because half the deck is a bad card
I think checking flop here is a disaster in the making. Why would we give 2 villains a free card.

There are so many turn cards that can hurt our action on future streets.

We are likely to have best hand. Bet flop and get value from a huge range.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote
01-20-2015 , 01:53 AM
I honestly don't think average V's are bluffing 25% of the time otr, they for sure aren't value betting worse. What draws could V be bluffing? Connected 9's often have a two pair on the river and will likely check it back, same goes for A9 type hands.
KQ may bluff but to think he's bluffing 25% of his range is a bit optimistic.

B/f is better than c/c for sure, and I think it's fine here since the board looks draw heavy and AK/AQ missed.

Last edited by jambre; 01-20-2015 at 02:00 AM.
AA on paired board, fold river? Quote

      
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