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AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep

12-09-2019 , 04:07 PM
1/3 NL at Encore Boston. Hero is tight and probably a little too passive, but trying to be a little more aggressive especially in position. Stack $750.

V1 has been three to my right for a while but recently moved to my direct right. Recognized me from one of the NH card rooms. Seems confident and competent, more aggro than hero but not reckless. I have 3b him a couple times recently with my usual nitty range and gotten folds either PF or OTF.
30ish WG. Around $350.

V2 is pretty new to the table but has already chipped up nicely when a tilting player punted to him on consective hands. He's straddled at every opportunity thus far, only a few orbits. Was caught bluffing river in position one time with AJs gutterball that didn't there. He is two to my left. 30ish WG, on the nerdy/unkempt side. Also roughly $750.

I'll be honest: I never expected V2 was going to enter the pot, and when he did I had an "oh ****" moment. While I was definitely thinking during the hand, I'm no great poker thinker to begin with and being on the deep side here I felt a little out of my depth and probably wasn't thinking as clearly as I otherwise would. OTTH.

PF:

Hero is in SB, V2 in the straddle for $6, V1 OTB.

Two limps to V1, V1 raise to $30. Hero with AcAd in SB 3b to $100. BB folds, V2 in straddle calls $100 ("oh ****"), limpers fold, V1 calls.

Thoughts were, BUT vs SB, I've 3B V1 a couple times already, he's probably got something and he's probably going to think I'm FOS and we're going to get it in, super! I think this is the least controversial decision of the hand.

Flop ($305): Kh 9h 10s

At this point I'm thinking KK is V2s most likely holding, and it's not inconceivable that 99 and TT are in V1s range. Hero checks, V2 checks, V1 checks.

Turn ($305): 9s

Thoughts: If anyone elected to check a set on the flop they're now full or quadded. Maybe if they had a set they would have bet to protect on what is normally a wet board, but how wet is it really with this action? The only reasonable draws I can imagine on the flop are JJ and QQ for the gutter, and maybe a very sticky AQh?

Hero bets $80 thinking I can get a little value from (or deny equity to) JJ or QQ. If V2 raises, with his stack leverage I probably have to be done. If V1 shoves I'll have to make a decision, but for the price I'm probably getting it in with him. V2 calls, V1 folds.

River ($465): 3h

Thoughts: I've discounted nearly all heart draws. I think I we've got enough behind here where I can use a small blocking sizing of $85, maybe get looked up by AK, QQ, or JJ, and I'll probably have to fold if I get shoved on for the remaining ~$500.

Hero bets $85. V2 raises to $250. Hero, audibly: "****."

Thoughts? Thanks.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:15 PM
Pre is fine. I'm not too worried about V2's flat -- until I see the flop, which sucks.

I really dislike small bets, and this is why. You gave V2 a great price on the turn, and V2 could be raising you with a lot of hands on the river thinking you are weak.

If I bet the turn, it is bigger. If I bet the river, it is bigger.

As played, it's probably a fold, but I'd kick myself for my small bets and pay him off.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt

I really dislike small bets, and this is why. You gave V2 a great price on the turn, and V2 could be raising you with a lot of hands on the river thinking you are weak.

I think this has some merit, but “a lot of hands” don’t get to this spot. The value stuff is pretty obvious, but what bluffs get here?
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:27 PM
Your reaction to V2 calling should not be oh ****. It should be fist-pumping in your head that you are getting your AA 3-bet cold called in a straddle pot. You just have to realize that there is a pretty good chance all or most of you stack will be in the middle by the river, and make peace with that eventuality. You got over 10% of your stack in preflop with AA. That's a huge win. You'll turn a profit in this spot almost regardless of you play it from here on out.

Flop check is horrible. It's not a great flop, but their ranges are full of KQ/JJ/QQ/AK/AQ/AJ that we can get value from and/or deny equity. You're seeing monsters under the bed if you are worried about sets. It's a wet board. $200. If called, shove that turn. EZ game.

As played, turn bet is good, but sizing is bad. We are giving too good a price to any hand with equity. It needs to be at least 1/2 pot on this board.

OTR, you can check or bet. Sizing down here is fine, but you may have just induced the raise. I don't know what I'd do because I'm not likely to have played it this way. You played it like you're scared and I see people raise with the A blocker a lot. Given the price you are getting it's probably a crying call. You only have to be good about 20% of the time. Sometimes this will be a King going for thin value or a bluff.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0trod

Flop ($305): Kh 9h 10s

At this point I'm thinking KK is V2s most likely holding.
Why do you think this?
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0trod
I think this has some merit, but “a lot of hands” don’t get to this spot. The value stuff is pretty obvious, but what bluffs get here?
Any hand with the Ah, and it doesn't have to be a bluff. He could think KQ is good, AK is good, etc., putting H on JJ/QQ or trying to bluff H off of AK.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
Your reaction to V2 calling should not be oh ****. It should be fist-pumping in your head that you are getting your AA 3-bet cold called in a straddle pot.
OK, it's more my reaction to the flop that's "oh ****" as in, that's not great.
My reaction to the call itself was mostly surprised that 3 bets cold is getting flatted here. I'm only a recreational player, maybe 10 hours a week, and I see spots like this very very rarely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
their ranges are full of KQ/JJ/QQ/AK/AQ/AJ
I think the range to cold call three to this size is much tighter than this. JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AKs. In the middle between me and V1, I'm folding AJs, AQs, all the offsuit combos, JJ, and possible QQ. I know I'm tight but is this really overfolding?
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:54 PM
Without you knowing villain very well your assumption is too tight.

Just because you would call this tight doesn't mean others are.

I see 88-QQ, ATs-AKs, AQ/AK, KQs, QJs, JTs quite often.

And this spot is not that rare live.

Also 3 bet a little bigger pf and bet flop.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Any hand with the Ah, and it doesn't have to be a bluff. He could think KQ is good, AK is good, etc., putting H on JJ/QQ or trying to bluff H off of AK.
I'm skeptical that KQ gets here, but your point is taken. Hero has underrepped his hand here. At my 1/3 games I don't expect to see AK or KQ raised for value here. I don't think any Ah hands get here except maybe Ah Qh. I also wouldn't expect a lot of turning JJ or QQ into a bluff at these games, but I think these are the prime candidates that would both possibly get here and possibly bluff raise a river.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 05:05 PM
Live players flat absurdly wide, in response to bets that they themselves would not make without stronger holdings. In other words, while their range required to make it $100 preflop here is narrow (probably wider than you but still narrow), they will call with a much wider range, as discussed above.

Also yeah be happy you got flatted 2 ways here, it’s a dream spot. I understand why it’s intimidating but you need to put on your big boy pants and get ready to try to get stacks in on most boards and to most types of action.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0trod
I'm skeptical that KQ gets here, but your point is taken. Hero has underrepped his hand here. At my 1/3 games I don't expect to see AK or KQ raised for value here. I don't think any Ah hands get here except maybe Ah Qh. I also wouldn't expect a lot of turning JJ or QQ into a bluff at these games, but I think these are the prime candidates that would both possibly get here and possibly bluff raise a river.
I actually think we are toast, but considering we checked the flop and bet small on the turn and river, we have no real idea.

Also, OP, V1 is the straddle, and many players defend their straddles extremely wide -- even for 3bets pre.

(My last "fun" with a straddle calling wide was when I 3bet someone all in to $1,400 pre-flop and straddle called with 57sooted and rivered a straight! Yes, this was a 1/3 hand. It was a weird table, but still.)
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 05:42 PM
Gotta get out of this seat with V2 sitting where he is, imo.

We can probably afford to go slightly smaller preflop against V1's stack (I like offering poor 8:1 IO which would be a reraise to $80ish) but being OOP and against a competent player and with still a big straddler in the hand a larger raise is still fine too.

We've committed ourselves preflop, imo. The SPR is lol < 1 against V1 and even against V2 it's just lol ~2. Board is drawy. AK is still in play. I PSB the flop to jam the turn and I'm never folding. Could we be behind? Yup. And if they're willing to put in 1/3rd - 1/7th of their stack preflop to hit, they're getting my stack every single time (but it won't be profitable for them to do so in the long run).

Gpreflophasputusinaneasypeasycommitmentspot(welldo ne),nowcommit!G
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 05:57 PM
Trivial call on the end getting those odds with our hand so underrepped and with V possibly raising K10 or AK with a heart blocker. Flop check is fine some of the time but then you need to do at least $150-200 on turn to have a balanced range and setup river shove.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-09-2019 , 06:21 PM
I don't really have anything to add besides you should've gone $150 pre.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-10-2019 , 07:09 PM
Results:

I decided that 1) I’m underrepped. 2) QQ / JJ are in this guys range and I think he’s the type that might turn them into a bluff if they get here. 3) At least given my ranging (which many here disagree with) he has more than enough bluff combos here vs value combos considering the price I’m getting, to justify a call - even if doesn’t always turn the bluff combos into bluffs. Lastly, I got a little bit of a verbal clue that villain wanted a fold. So I elected to call, V2 shows Js Jc and I scoop. V1 says he folded QQ.

I feel lucky to have won this hand given the way I played it. I appreciate the comments.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-10-2019 , 07:40 PM
Agree river is trivial call, as played.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-11-2019 , 12:36 AM
Larger pre, bet flop, bet/jam turn. The flop isn't that scary.

Hero must have been running bad recently (skeletons in the closet thinking) and/or has an extremely nitty image.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-11-2019 , 01:30 AM
$120-$140 preflop because we are oop and plenty of dead money.

On the flop I would be thinking what is the best way to get all the money in, NOT "oh ***"
You can elect to bet 1/3 on flop then jam turn, or bet 1/2 and jam turn....just bet flop.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-11-2019 , 03:24 AM
After betting flop are we still jamming K/Q/J turns?
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-11-2019 , 04:04 AM
Not if you like money.
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote
12-11-2019 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
After betting flop are we still jamming K/Q/J turns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Not if you like money.
If we bet just a lol 1/2 PSB on the flop, that'll leave us with a lol 1/4 PSB against V1 and lol 1/2 PSB against V2. If we bet a PSB on the flop (which is what I would do), that'll leave us already all-in against V1 and just a lol 1/3 PSB against V2.

Gwe'regettingawayfromourhandifbeat?G
AA OOP in 3 bet, 3 way bloated pot, semi-deep Quote

      
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