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AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL

01-09-2016 , 10:42 AM
I've tried coming up with a bunch of different ways to ask if raising more to thin the field puts V2 on a spot where he doesn't want to shove otf, but I think they all get laughed at. Honestly, seems like the extra calls pf give you the extra equity needed to call, even though it seems somewhat marginal.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 10:42 AM
Wow, wiffle not advocating fold pre for once.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiteMeFish
I've tried coming up with a bunch of different ways to ask if raising more to thin the field puts V2 on a spot where he doesn't want to shove otf, but I think they all get laughed at. Honestly, seems like the extra calls pf give you the extra equity needed to call, even though it seems somewhat marginal.
i dont think pre there is really anything OP could do. he said that he raised twice before to the same amount and got folds both times. sometimes several people just have a hand, it happens. saying 'raise more pre' is pretty much just results oriented because we know after the fact that there are a bunch of callers. if this was a PAHWM and we didnt know the outcome, OP would be getting all replies for raising to 15 pre
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 03:09 PM
Maybe, but ime (and maybe it's just from being used to playing 2/100 SL where raises are standard a lot bigger) I'd be raising more pf but that's probably transferring inappropriately in the situation. What's interesting was that I couldn't really find an amount that A) made sense and B) would make post-flop decisions more straightforward given the board. It was basically going to come to that decision point no matter what.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbnJmaster13
I felt he was a tight player. I therefore talked myself into thinking he had a set and shoved to price out draws. In this case I was wrong and folded my hand to be shown AK.

I felt it was close but was mentally dealing with a hand the day prior where I made a bad call all in. That affected my decision but I'm glad to see it wasn't as bad a fold as I thought.

As I dwelled on the hand today I think it's a call as a set probably calls.
If he showed you AK its a good fold a think because he was doing it for value and because he did not want someone to draw. AK was the only hand that you could beat that he would value this way, others like 2p or sets had you beat. He played bad and lucky you was a good player, he did not think of what you had, he just not wanted someone to draw him out of his tptk.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boten
If he showed you AK its a good fold a think because he was doing it for value and because he did not want someone to draw. AK was the only hand that you could beat that he would value this way, others like 2p or sets had you beat. He played bad and lucky you was a good player, he did not think of what you had, he just not wanted someone to draw him out of his tptk.
if he can have ak here then it's a very bad fold
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiffle
if he can have ak here then it's a very bad fold
Well if he does that with ak then he does it with 2ps and sets and ak is the only hand we beat so its not a bad fold
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boten
Well if he does that with ak then he does it with 2ps and sets and ak is the only hand we beat so its not a bad fold
ak/99/77 are the only hands that he can have
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiffle
ak/99/77 are the only hands that he can have
no
Quote:
34,650 games 0.000 secs 6,930,000 games/sec

Board: Kc 9h 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.227% 32.86% 01.36% 11387 472.50 { AcAs }
Hand 1: 65.773% 64.41% 01.36% 22318 472.50 { AA, 99, 77, AKs, K9s, K7s, Th8h, 97s, 8h6h, AKo, K9o, 97o }
Remove K9, 97o and it's closer.

Quote:
21,780 games 0.000 secs 4,356,000 games/sec

Board: Kc 9h 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.534% 37.36% 02.17% 8138 472.50 { AcAs }
Hand 1: 60.466% 58.30% 02.17% 12697 472.50 { AA, 99, 77, AKs, K9s, K7s, Th8h, 97s, 8h6h, AKo }
You all seem to forget there are only 6 combos of AKo possible, this is NOT a call.

edit: fixed range typo

Last edited by kekeeke; 01-09-2016 at 09:46 PM.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-09-2016 , 10:00 PM
Hero holds Ah which affects your equity calc. V could have KQ or JT. Need 38%+ or so to call.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-10-2016 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours
Hero holds Ah which affects your equity calc. V could have KQ or JT. Need 38%+ or so to call.
I missed that, thanks. I don't know if he can have KQ..

I dunno, AK has much more emotional value then KQ, when a player doesn't 3bet AK and they flop TP, it's the nuts but when they have KQ, it's different.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-10-2016 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
I missed that, thanks. I don't know if he can have KQ..

I dunno, AK has much more emotional value then KQ, when a player doesn't 3bet AK and they flop TP, it's the nuts but when they have KQ, it's different.
Agreed.
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-10-2016 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours
Agreed.
In p
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-10-2016 , 12:49 PM
villain has a strong range when he calls our utg+1 raise over an utg limp in utg+2.
it doesnt include k9s or 97s. his flop range doesnt include them either
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote
01-10-2016 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiffle
villain has a strong range when he calls our utg+1 raise over an utg limp in utg+2.
it doesnt include k9s or 97s. his flop range doesnt include them either
Is the quality of player at 1/3 significantly better than at 1/2? I only ask because from my 1/2 background, most players give about zero ****s about an "UTG+1 opening over an UTG limper so he must have a strong range which means I can only call in UTG+2 with a strong range"

In my experience, and YMMV, but most players see a raise $X and then basically ask themselves, "is this hand worth $X to play?" Many times there is little to no consideration as to raises stack size/position/looseness or tightness or their own stack size/position. So much so that I routinely see players with 50bb stacks call 20-40% of their stack pre, and then fold somewhere along in the hand. Hell, last night alone I had the honor of sitting to the direct left of 2 special souls who felt limp/calling 8-10bb raises with hands as great as K3o, J2o, etc, with regular occurrence.

All of this is really just a long winded way of saying: how do you know K9s/97s are not in V2s range? We're given literally no information about his calling range (despite OP claiming to have pretty good reads on all the players at the table and then not giving any reads). Without this information I would think including it would be a more conservative/profitable approach
AA facing flop shove 1-3 NL Quote

      
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