Playing 1-2 supper table (1-2 with a 100 to 500 buy in though the games are new and most players still buy in for 100 to 200)

Table gotten very deep do too a couple of very loose gambly players who have been lucky.


I have the Jesus seat on these players...

V1 in the hand is a 30ish women...seems semi competent..though with $200 to $300 stacks overvalued AK on A high board a couple of times re raising over flop and turn raises...but turned out to be right (maybe she's brilliant and I'm weak tight) . As I maneuver to get better position, she gave up the Jesus seat to take my old seat...so I doubt she understands position. She has loosened up a lot to play hands with the two loose players. She bluffed the really gambly loose player off on big hand (he folded AQ on an A high board to her big bet on the river when the third flush card came in)...she has over $1000.

V2 is the loose player mentioned above. Calls pre flop raises...most 12 to 18 with almost any two...chases a lot...and has been incredibly lucky...Will bet very big when he hits his huge hands...but tends to bluff smaller or on earlier streets....He has opened 92s for 35 and then made a big flop bluff to win that hand...But for most of the game he's calling more then raising...I folded top pair to a big river donk bet about an hour or so before this hand when he hit his inside weal draw...

Hero been card dead...wanting to mix it up...but no cards at all..for the last couple of hours. The table should note that i've been playing tight...not my plan but cards not helping..

I have abut 600 and both players have me covered...

limp, V1 limps,limp, loose player limps, V2 super loose limps, I pick up AA on the btn...I make it $20...BB calls, V1 calls, loose players calls, V2 calls.

Pot is $100 ish 5 players....(3 of them have me covered with effective stacks 600ish)....

KT5 rainbow

BB Checks, V1 bets 25, folds to V2 who calls, I make it 125 (probably a little small as the pot is 175 and I raise 100 but not used to the bigger numbers). V1 hem and haws and finally calls the 100, V2 folds...

My first thought was villain 1 had a K, and wanted to see where at...Did not think AK as she did not raise pre flop and had done that with AK in the past, especially now with too very loose players behind.....Sets unlikely, with this many players...and KK would have raised pre.....KT 25 bet does not make much sense but possible, her hem and hawing could be acting...and QJ trying to set a price makes some sense ...had not seen her play draws this way...???, possibly thinks top pair is good as her first bet might induce a bluff (from the tightest player at the table???)


Turn 375, (450ish behind)

off suit 3.....she quickly checks....????


I'm really not used to deep stack play....Can't believe that she would call any hand I beat now if I shove...If I bet anything...I can't see myself folding to her shove...so I elect to check (in the back of my mind is the fact that I have two blockers to the only draw).

river is a blank....

she bets 100, I call....


Thoughts...

Seems like you induced or saved money against 55.

This is a tricky spot given the stack sizes. If you bet anything substantial on the turn you are almost certainly committed to the hand, which, given the hands she has shown so far is not the worst thing in the world.

You are probably missing some value from KQ and KJ, but I would have a feeling that this could often be 55 and I like your play. I generally don't try to play 300 bb pots with one pair. What is your plan for river on a K, Q, J, 9, A?

The first thing that strikes me is that i would go even bigger preflop with this many limpers- especially since at least two of them is described as very loose. You dont want 4 callers when you have AA, your want to get 1 caller or maximum 2. With that many limpers i gonna find my big guns here and juice it up to at least 30 pre.

As played,with such multiway pot i would proceed really carefully. Big pocket pairs like KK or AA is big reverse implied odds hands when playing deep.

Raise more pre at this game over that many limpers.

Flop was fine, 25 is too cheap here to let everyone and their mother continue.

I think turn is still a bet for value. I'd rather check back river.

Preflop is tough, imo. Our image completely sucks due to the run of cards and now we want to raise to thin the field so we're going to have to raise super big, especially being this deep. I really don't like going eleventeen ways to the flop in a raised pot this deep. Is there any chance blinds will raise? If so, I'd go for a limp/reraise here. Otherwise, I think I just grit my teeth and raise a lot bigger and hope I get a caller. No one is making a mistake calling our preflop raise and now we're playing for 300bb stacks postflop. Honestly, I'd rather see a limped multiway pot here than a raised one, but I know I'll be in the minority on that.

I just find postflop so difficult now. We have a small SPR with an overpear, so I guess we have to commit, and yet we're in a 5way pot, which sucks. I mean, 55 is just so laughing their ass off right now.

GhonestlyhasnocluewhattodopostflophereG

I agree in pretty much everything your say here,especially suggestion of limp-reraising- wich i personally often do with KK or AA when playing 200 BB or deeper. It makes the hand much easier to play post flop, and makes to SPR much better for big pocket pairs. My dream scenario is to limp along here, and suck one of the blinds in with a big raise trying to thin the field- and we can put in a real good reraise pre- bloating the pot with AA. (Gets me hard just thinking about it ).

I have stacked people with JJ-QQ or AK that dont manage to get away from their hands with this kind of play many times.If table is aggressive and with people who loves to make "moves" at weakness i personally love the limp reraise with AA.

I think we should raise a bit bigger, but it's not too bad.

I might raise turn a bit bigger or a bit smaller; if bigger it's to jam turn, and if smaller it's to set up small 3 streets. I don't like raising the flop and checking turn too much, I'd rather flat turn and call down.

omg weals and overpears what's going on.

Looks a lot like villain had QJ and decided to take a stab at it with a value bet bluff line. After you check the turn she can think you were making a move on the flop. She could also think she is value betting KQ and KJ here. A set of fives is possible but I'd just rap the table and say NH just because your opponent beats you in a pot doesn't mean you played bad.

What did she show?

Villain betting 100 on the river with QJ is bad. That's never folding a king there.

It seems more likely to me that's a little value bet, actually, with a king.

Yeah I'm pretty tempted to raise there on the river, except we look like we're never bluffing so we don't get called.

I don't think Villain is trying to bluff out a King, Villain is trying to bluff out JJ QQ, A10, J10, AQ, AJ. She could also be thinking she is ahead with a K after Hero checked the turn. The only reason I'm leaning toward a bluff her is her bet sizing on the flop. IMO a made hand would lead more given the other opponents in the hand to protect against their obvious wide calling ranges and likely calls with draws.

lol at us raising flop with almost any of those hands, though. That's just wishcasting. That makes zero sense even to a bad player. They are going to put us on AK here a lot.

We raised pre and raised the flop when it got to us in a five way pot, what kind of moron do we have to be to have QQ, JJ, AT, AQ, JT, or AJ here?

Appreciate your thoughts. I do think I can raise more pre flop...though I don't mind playing multi way pots with AA and position... 6 to 1 spr a bit tricky multi way... but given how easy hand reading is in these pots...and how badly they hand read...its one of the few big edges I regularly capitalize on...

gobbledygeek is making one big mistake....6 to 1 in a multi way pot is a large spr...with AA..in a multi way pots change the aimed spr considerably....I would need an spr of less then 2 to 1 and really 1 to 1 to feel committed in a 5 way pot...

Though the idea of limping the btn hopping one of the blinds raises is interesting, as I recall neither of the blinds seemed aggressive...though I did not stop to even consider it at the time.

When I raised the flop, I hoped she would fold and the loose idiot would continue....her call confused the hell out of me....a small bet in a large multi way pot is most often top pair that thinks it has to do something to protect itself (I know this because its out of ed Millers book on hand reading LOL)... but her call kind of confused that read...

I mean my raise looks like AK at minimum...though honestly I do love raising these small bets in multi way pots on semi bluffs (AQ with a back door flush might have been enough)...but not generally if one of the callers is very loose...

The river where I think I might have missed value...a small raise (click back her hundred) I kind of considered it..though I might actually have considered it more after she tabled

AK...

Thanks again for your thoughts...

pre my first thought was $27-30. Flop is fine, though I might make it a bit less just in case her weak donk = a monster. Turn I'd continue betting and call a shove, probably go $200 since her hand looks like KQ/AK or QJ. River as played I'd just minraise or shove because it's an obvious blocking bet. If you had bet the turn you could have completely doubled up here. I think that was your biggest mistake.

I totally agree that I'm not comfortable stacking off at a 6 SPR in a very multiway pot (especially one for 300bb stacks which most typical players don't get in easy) either. The problem is that any bet is quickly getting us on our way there. We have $580 going to a flop of $100; if someone donks $75, now what? If we call, that creates a $250 pot with $505 left. Now what on a $150 turn donk? If we call, this sets up a $550 river pot with a rather lol $355 left. You're simply a much better hand reader than I am if you can figure out the difference between TP vs a set here.

I hear all the time how this is a great spot because TP hands will feel committed and stack off to us. If that's the case, then I guess we're stacking off? Meanwhile, 55 is struggling to keep a straight face.

And now think of the alternative if we simply overlimped, the limp/reraise falls flat on our face, and now we're in a ~$20 pot with $598 behind. Poker all of a sudden becomes infinitely easier and we're unlikely to make a huge mistake.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I just don't think the spot your talking about is as tough as you think...It takes a pretty big drooler to donk $75 into multi opponents and the original raiser, get called by the original raiser and follow through with a 150 bet with a hand an over pair beats...(or a pretty good player who know how I play and thank god at the levels I play they don't seem to exist)

Sure sometime you run into a drooler and did not recognize it before the hand and fold the best hand....but because players play so ABC in multi way pots its much rarer then you think at least in my experience.

The tough part in multi way raised pots is that you often have to give free cards...(as case in point if she had the more likely QJ hand) but the good news is they often let you check it down after the flop when they don't hit because they don't want to bluff so many players, and if they do bet big they have it.

Ed Miller has a line in I think playing the player or his hand reading book...in which he talks about multi way pots. Basically he says that nits do as well as they do in low stake poker because the way to play multi way pots is like a nit, and nits play them that way and there are a lot of these pots.

As I say, you're simply a better hand reader than I am. I have no idea how to distinguish between the play of AK/KQ vs KT/55 here. None at all. Seems to me all of these hands could easily play the hand the same way.

I see why you played the way you did...even with the two loose players you said you had a reputation for being tight and didn't mind playing multi way with aces from position. I still personally would have wanted to take the pot before the river, given the previous luck your opponents had in the past. Playing deep with Aces gives your opponents a chance to hit two pair/flush with what is possibly a nothing hand. I would've tried to get as many as possible to fold after the flop. Chances are someone made kings and at the least one loose player would have called giving you much better odds, even if you had to see the river you would still take the pot.

The fact that V1 lead into you should just scream AK or KQ. There's no way anyone is leading into a tight pre flop raiser with QJ. And your lucky this Villian didn't wake up with 55 or TT, although yet again there's no way someone is leading into the original raiser with a flopped set. What is your reasoning for raising the flop? It is a rainbow board and honestly most competent players could fold AK on this board to a 100$ reraise, although it wouldn't have gotten to that because not many competent players are leading to find out where they are in the hand. Your play later in this hand was great. I think you gave your opponent way too much credit and assumed they knew as much as you on the flop.

FWIW, I'm leading a flopped set 100% of the time here. It's a 5 way pot that smashes some people and there's already 50bb in the middle. Bet/bet/shove for easy monies.

Your competent though so a good player would lead a set here..then we'd raise to 100 more and could be playing for stacks then. This situation did workout but I still think the line on the flop with the Villian leading is a serious losing play long term. Oh and I forgot to add OP definitely min raise + otr as you mentioned.