Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2017, 09:46 PM   #1
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,464
AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Hero - $1000 - Stuck about $300 - so just topped off to $1000. I have a solid image with a stack off range of JJ+ but usually the JJ - QQ are only stack offs if there is a straddle and the action is weird. But villain has seen me at other tables ship in AK (correctly in the spot) for 200BB before facing 4bets.

This time I have Aces at a pretty crazy table where when someone opens to $20 - $40 pre - it gets like 5 callers. So fantastic table, unfortunately regs are swarming it like the plague and it will soon be a bad table agin.

Villain - $2500 - I have no idea if this guy is stuck or up, he seems pretty frustrated but is a room reg, and i've had chats with him before. He is a decent player but not someone I really fear.

Villain goes $20 UTG
4 callers
I get AA on the BTN and go $120
He tanks and goes $250
Folds to me


What is the most +EV line???
Jam or Call?? I seem to always get it wrong - when I just call they check fold and say I they had AK. When I Jam they snap fold.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #2
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 4,003
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Just keep calling him down. No need to 5bet. SPR is going to be 1.3x the hand takes no thought whatsoever.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:02 PM   #3
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,464
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Not exactly true - you lose a lot of value vs AK
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:05 PM   #4
CowboyCold
old hand
 
CowboyCold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 1,338
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Disagree. This is one of the few times I want to overbet shove. Villain on tilt Ego calls here a lot in these situations.
CowboyCold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:09 PM   #5
Avaritia
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dante's Inferno
Posts: 8,275
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Man I wish I had these kinds of problems
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:13 PM   #6
the_dude_174
centurion
 
the_dude_174's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 109
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

The perfect spot to flat AA. This hand plays itself.
the_dude_174 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:16 PM   #7
CowboyCold
old hand
 
CowboyCold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 1,338
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Man I wish I had these kinds of problems
Is there any wrong way to play this short of folding?
CowboyCold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:34 PM   #8
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 4,003
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
Not exactly true - you lose a lot of value vs AK
How do we lose value when we shove and he folds AK?
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 11:27 PM   #9
Koss
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Playing Recreationally
Posts: 3,698
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Man I wish I had these kinds of problems
Sort of my thoughts. Jam, click back, call down. All seem like legit options and are really situational. I like the min raise here. It gets more money in with the best of it and minimizes fold risk.
Koss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 01:24 AM   #10
BackDoorFlush
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,670
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Sort of my thoughts. Jam, click back, call down. All seem like legit options and are really situational
This. I like flatting due to his small 4! bet size.
BackDoorFlush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 01:59 AM   #11
cicakman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,194
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

400
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 02:10 AM   #12
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,464
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Man I wish I had these kinds of problems
Depends how you play - if you start 3betting or 4betting wide you run into this spot more often
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:24 AM   #13
Petrucci
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 956
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Excellent spot to flat on the button. You are keeping your continuerange somewhat wide (at least not at all faceup as "slowplayed" AA), as you probably are taking lots of your 3 bettingrange to the streets to his small 4 bet sizing and when you have position.

Villain is gonna feel compelled to blast off postflop with probably his whole range, wich of course is extremely valueheavy and weighted towards QQ/KK and AK combos.

I dont think these spots is occuring at a high enough frequenzy at LLSNL that we need to start developing a 5 bet range. If you do 5 bet your extremely narrow range should be pretty faceup even if the villain is a bad player.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 08:16 AM   #14
samo
veteran
 
samo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,252
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Not sure what his sizing reps, giving >3.4-1 to call? Regardless, if he bets most of his range OTF, pretty ez flat, then gii OTF. His continuing range should include many combos of value (JJ+) which usually face under flops. U block AK (8 combos left) vs. 19 combos of JJ+.
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 02:02 PM   #15
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,464
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Problem is - I think he just check/folds most flops unless he flops some equity.

Maybe I run bad, but when I just flat my aces, they always just check/fold unless they flop a flush draw, or trips. Tough to say

If he does have AK or QQ+ I probably want to just ship it in now.

If he has a hand like AT-AQ or Kx I want to flat.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 03:44 PM   #16
PFunkaliscious
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,593
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

He just goes 250? He seems to be begging for a 5!.

as played, you only have 1000. The 250 is free money. Might as well click it back and see if you can get some more.

Go 400.
PFunkaliscious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 05:35 PM   #17
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 4,003
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Let's play a game called when was the last time you got 5! by a hand that wasn't AA?

I'll start: Two weeks ago I got 5bet shoved by K6s after I opened AJo, he 3bet squeezed, I 4!, he 5! jammed and I tank called it off for $750 at 1/3. Predictably, he flopped a 6 and held. But .... he was a sicko and had been drinking.

Aside from that, I don't remember the last time I was 5! and it wasn't AA. I don't even think I've been 5! more than a handful of times tbh.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:42 PM   #18
javi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,419
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

a 5/T reg that everyone says is one of the best, whom i frequently see sitting on huge stacks of 5-10k and travels to play in 1k+ tourneys sits at my 2/5 game to my right. He raises, i 3bet AA, he 4bets, I 5bet, he calls. Flop is like 256 and he just donk ships into me. I call and he says "wow you really have it?" and I scoop. I didnt even care to see his hand.

Your opponent might fold a lot in these spots but occasionally he'll ship it. Also we cant let him set his own price to spike on us preflop. For all you know despite his seemingly solid play he's some superstitious idiot who always goes allin with JTs, or for some reason this time he thinks he's soul reading you for making a move and wants to play back, or he struggles with the same dilemma of "why would you 5bet AA? IT MUST BE A BLUFF!" and stick it in with QQ.

Last edited by javi; 10-13-2017 at 06:55 PM.
javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 07:10 PM   #19
cicakman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,194
Re: AA on the BTN facing 4bet - 2/5 deep

Who cares tho? No one folds 150 more after putting in 250. If they do it's just a rare exception and you should pound them all night.
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online