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2/5NL Flop decision with flush

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10-10-2013 , 01:09 AM

jay_got_JJ's

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 665

Hero Sb $485 : tag image

Villain Utg+1 $700 : older white male between 40's-50's. loose preflop, likes to see a lot of flops. fairly straightforward postflop. not a competent player.

Preflop $7
V limps
Mp limps
H completes sb 4

Bb checks

Flop $20 9

H bets $20
Bb fold
V raise to $80
Mp fold
H ?

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10-10-2013 , 01:24 AM

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Fold pre

Ime they'll never put you on a flopped flush. If you shove, they'll think you're protecting or drawing and call off enough with Ah Xx or overpairs.

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10-10-2013 , 01:26 AM

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Also unlikely that he has a big flush because he'd raise pre

If he does limp broadways though, flatting his raise might not be so bad so you don't value own yourself.

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10-10-2013 , 01:50 AM

jackhigh328

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 253

As played I call and evaluate the turn. V is almost def not trying to protect an over pair since he limped. He could have some broadways in his range that are four-flushed, 67/JT with one &hearts;️for straight/flush draws, 89 for 2p. If &hearts;️,8 or 9 don't hit the turn we could still be in decent shape unless he flopped the joint in which case we try to lose as little as we can. Prob check/call most turns and rivers.

I prob would have check/called the flop though and evaluated the turn. That way we aren't bloating the pot out of position with a weak flush.

Anyone's thoughts on my line here are welcome as well.

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10-10-2013 , 02:02 AM

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,076

I fold.

Check/calling is very bad. Keep betting until they raise.

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10-10-2013 , 09:47 AM

MaxRhino

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 913

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABR42

I fold.

Check/calling is very bad. Keep betting until they raise.

Old men do not fast play flopped flushes though, especially big ones.

My only worry would be him showing up with something like the 6 high flush.

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10-10-2013 , 10:51 AM

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxRhino

Old men do not fast play flopped flushes though, especially big ones.

My only worry would be him showing up with something like the 6 high flush.

They do because they know another heart kills their action

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10-10-2013 , 11:02 AM

85chickasaw

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,802

grunch: fold

if you say old man plays straight forward then take out bluffs. could easily be flush over flush. go with gut and specific read though. if you think old man would do that with a pair to protect against a 4-flush then call it down. as described i probably let it go. that's a big raise to call.

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10-10-2013 , 11:37 AM

mtagliaf

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,649

fold pre. You flopped the world and still have to fold, is there any better evidence that this hand might not be worth playing at all?

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10-10-2013 , 11:38 AM

#10

MaxRhino

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 913

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke0424

They do because they know another heart kills their action

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I disagree.

They are more concerned with "trapping" or "not scarin' ya off the hand" than having their action killed. It would imply that they're concerned with setting up value on future streets which is a concept that would the minds of the average 2-5 OMC.

They will raise here with medium flushes because they "dont want to see another heart come" but don't really care about that if they have the nut flush because they will still win. They're playing not to lose, not playing for max value.

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10-10-2013 , 11:52 AM

#11

Redskins 47

adept

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,103

Obv fold pre so you don't get into these silly spots.

As played soul read villain. I call and see what he does on the turn. Its such a guessing game... 88, 99, 33 are in his range. Higher flushes and Ahx hands.

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10-10-2013 , 02:13 PM

#12

peac b the journey

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 439

I struggle to agree with folding pre.

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10-10-2013 , 02:14 PM

#13

peac b the journey

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 439

Villain has 98 suited stop being a little girl and raise him

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10-10-2013 , 03:04 PM

#14

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

lol i'm never folding pre

raise to 230/fold

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10-10-2013 , 03:48 PM

#15

mtagliaf

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,649

I'm never raise/folding - villain (a not competent player) can have all kinds of pair+FD type stuff. JTo with a heart, QT with a heart, Ah9x, etc. He can also be raising 89 and sets. I think we fold the best hand way too often if we raise/fold.

If you're going to play 42s vs. a donk, then I don't think you ever fold when you flop a flush. You get your money in vs his worse made hands and draws, and you pay off higher flushes, because he has way more of the former than the latter (mainly because bad players play way more unsuited stuff). If you don't like the idea of automatically paying off higher flushes vs. donks, then fold 42s pre, as many have advised.

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10-10-2013 , 03:56 PM

#16

peac b the journey

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 439

^---- this is exactly what in thinking. Folding pre is dumb. Get the money in on te flop. If he has higher flush so what you ran into the top of his range. IMO can't fold pre and can't fold to his 80 raise. You could flat and try to reduce variance and gii ott when a brick hits

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10-10-2013 , 04:41 PM

#17

Sebastes Pinneger

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 721

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtagliaf

fold pre.
You flopped the world and still have to fold, is there any better evidence that this hand might not be worth playing at all?

^This^^^(see above)

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