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Old 03-26-2014, 02:55 PM   #1
odogg99
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A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Just looking for a general analysis on this hand. Was it just a cooler? I was at table for 2 hours with V and I was playing TAG. He showed down 2 fishy hands where he called down light.

C/O Player (297.0)** HERO is (btn) (297.0)** SB Player (300.0)*

Playing 1.0/2.0*PRE-FLOP*: Hero is BTN with*Ad*8d*5 folds,*C/O Raises to 10.0,*HERO 3Bets to 25.0,*SB Calls 24.00,*1 fold,*C/O Calls 15.00*

FLOP :*( 77)*8c*Ah*6d*(2 players)*Player:$272, Travis:$272, Player:$276*SB checks*,*C/O Bets 20.0,*HERO Calls 20.00,*1 fold*

TURN :*( 117)*3d*(2 players)*Player:$252, Travis:$252*C/O Bets 35.0,*HERO Raises to 85.0,*C/O Calls 50.00

*RIVER :*( 287)*3c*(2 players)*Player:$167, Travis:$167*C/O checks*,*HERO Bets 167.0,*C/O Calls 167*C/O

(Player) shows*8h*8s*(Full house 8's full of 3's ) and wins 324.0*BTN (Travis) shows*Ad*8d*(Two pair A's and 8's)*
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:04 PM   #2
agnostia
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

This is the hardest to read post possibly ever.
Pretty much just a cooler. I like the bid river bet though cuz the paired 3s often look like a good card to villain if he has A with good kicker and now thinks he's surely ahead.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:06 PM   #3
bananapeel
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Were you tracking this live with poker agent?
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:03 PM   #4
HitKing4192
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Welcome to the boards! As others have already said, the hand history is kind of hard to read. Making it look cleaner will get more people to give you input.

Anyway, yes, this is a cooler, especially with your read of Villain. He gave you no indication he was as strong as he was, and especially with the "fishy caller" read you had, you were right to try to go for value like you did. Don't think twice of it.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:07 PM   #5
odogg99
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Yes I copied the hand from my poker agent. II'm new to forums I'm not sure yet how to best post live hands. Any more analysis would be great and thank you all that have read.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:38 AM   #6
Bill Hickok
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Is the 3b pre good? How would you have played a8o? Being suited doesn't help short handed. You had to stack off because pre the put was bloated. What do you think his opening range in co is and is a8 really ahead of that?

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Old 03-27-2014, 03:45 AM   #7
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Don't like the 3bet pre (not totally against it given co raised).

It's a cooler spot, don't see myself playing it much diff (after the 3bet pre).

2 tips, clean up your post, as already stated...don't post results in original post or title (skews ppls posts), leave showdown blank until discussion has been finished.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:10 AM   #8
JJ!
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Welcome to the forum "dogg"

I don't like how this hand was played at all. Why are you so super aggro?

3bet pre-flop with A8 suited..erhm?

c/o betting on the flop is STRONG... Especially with an Ace high flop and you taking the initiative with your 3bet.

Then he fires again on the turn and you raise... He calls then checks river.

None of that seemed suspect to you?

I would have checked behind on the river especially on a paired board.

Do you think he's calling an all-in with AK/AQ here? It would be a hard call imo.

I think he's only calling when he has you beat most of the time.

Also consider you have a blocker so that makes AK/AQ less likely too... something to think about.

Last edited by JJ!; 03-27-2014 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:29 AM   #9
oldschool_vegas
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Every time the V has a set, is it considered a cooler? How does one try and get value if we're afraid that villain has a set against us?

On the flop, he could have AJ+. He's betting into our 3 bet and we call. He knows we have strength. On the turn he does it again and we repop him, and he calls. He must think we have a very strong Ace, what do we put him on?

AJ+, or a set ( 88, 66 ).

He checks to us on the river, do we have value bet here or not because of fear of a set?

Here we probably need an EV calculation.

Using equilab we're 85% vs the above range. Now the question is, will he call all ins with AJ+ here? If so, then going all is correct, if not, we should bet less or check. Whatever happened to small value bets, like 30-50? Is that considered too weak now a days?
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:19 PM   #10
odogg99
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Quote:
I don't like how this hand was played at all. Why are you so super aggro?

3bet pre-flop with A8 suited..erhm?
He raised from the c/o a couple times and I thought there was a fair chance he was stealing and I thought this had was decent enough to be ahead of his range and re-steal with. I expected a fold PF actually.

Quote:
c/o betting on the flop is STRONG... Especially with an Ace high flop and you taking the initiative with your 3bet.

Then he fires again on the turn and you raise... He calls then checks river.

None of that seemed suspect to you?
When he donk bet into me I was even more sure he had AJ+ or possibly even Ax as I suspected PF.

Quote:
I would have checked behind on the river especially on a paired board.

Do you think he's calling an all-in with AK/AQ here? It would be a hard call imo.

I think he's only calling when he has you beat most of the time.

Also consider you have a blocker so that makes AK/AQ less likely too... something to think about.
Would very many good players check the virtual nuts on the river like this? Had I showed SO much strength that he knew I was going to bet the river? Wasn't it so much more likely I had a hand like AJ+ that I was going to check behind?

When he checked river I was again sure I had the best hand and did not want to miss value on AJ+ hands.

The funny part was he did not even snap call my river shove. He took a full 60 seconds to call maybe more. idk I feel like he was just playing the hand scared against me and I interpreted it as weakness.


I really appreciate the responses. I am (like all of us) just trying to improve my game so found my way to the site. Again, I'll be sure to make a cleaner hand history next time.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:53 PM   #11
JJ!
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Your re-raise on the turn almost always implies a bet on the river.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:06 PM   #12
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg99 View Post
He raised from the c/o a couple times and I thought there was a fair chance he was stealing and I thought this had was decent enough to be ahead of his range and re-steal with. I expected a fold PF actually.
Given this information, I don't mind the 3bet here at all. However, in order to maximize the value from your whole range, you may want to consider flatting with some of these medium strength hands like A8s rather than turning them into bluffs, and instead bluff with the best hands that aren't strong enough to flat with, like 85s or what have you. Just something to think about, but if you haven't 3bet him yet and have been itching to (as I would in this spot ) this is as good an opportunity as any.

I really think you should've raised the flop for value though. Raising just looks like a c-bet given how small his lead was, and it keeps all the air in your range while a flat announces that you have some showdown value. You said that this villain likes to call light, so play aggressively and give him an opportunity to do so.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:26 PM   #13
bananapeel
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg99 View Post
Yes I copied the hand from my poker agent. II'm new to forums I'm not sure yet how to best post live hands. Any more analysis would be great and thank you all that have read.
Doesn't your battery die after a couple of hours?

Forget the live tracking with poker agent, its only worth it if you play HELLA lot of hours in a game with exactly the same people day in day out.

Just make notes on people. Mental or otherwise. I love the secret camera function on poker agent!!
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post
Doesn't your battery die after a couple of hours?

Forget the live tracking with poker agent, its only worth it if you play HELLA lot of hours in a game with exactly the same people day in day out.

Just make notes on people. Mental or otherwise. I love the secret camera function on poker agent!!
I think some dude was using the secret camera on me before. I was like Lol I'll be broke in a day or two and you'll never see me again.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:48 PM   #15
bananapeel
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

haha!

Kudos to the app dev, but ffs who is going to sit there all night pretending to text when you're actually logging flops and bets!

You can make guessed ranges for people which is fun, but pointless as all the info is in your head anyway, and no one is ever going to tank-check ranges on your app. Most places wouldn't even allow it believing you were doing an odds calc
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:49 AM   #16
Bill Hickok
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You wonder why he tanked on the river? Look at the hand. What can he range you on? AA is what you have repped!! There aren't many a8 combos left from his pov. I haven't thought deeply about his play tbh but I can understand why he is scared.

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Old 03-28-2014, 07:32 AM   #17
Johnni2toes
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

tilting way to post a hand.

You had your reasons to 3-bet A8s pre. They may be good, may be bad, nobody here knows enough to judge that fore sure - perhaps not even you.

But once you did, yeah this hand is a cooler. You gots Top2 in a 3-bet pot, turned nut flush draw, with the betting lead, and not playing very deep. Not wanting to pile money in the pot is losing value in the long run.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:35 PM   #18
odogg99
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Quote:
Doesn't your battery die after a couple of hours?Forget the live tracking with poker agent, its only worth it if you play HELLA lot of hours in a game with exactly the same people day in day out.Just make notes on people. Mental or otherwise. I love the secret camera function on poker agent!!]
I don't track every hand hell no lol... I just record a hand after the fact that I want to remember all the details like stack size and the thoughts in my head at the time I played the hand.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:41 PM   #19
odogg99
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hickok View Post
You wonder why he tanked on the river? Look at the hand. What can he range you on? AA is what you have repped!! There aren't many a8 combos left from his pov. I haven't thought deeply about his play tbh but I can understand why he is scared.

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NO doubt I always have a strong hand here but no one is ever folding or even considering it given we were not super deep stacked. Given all the good posts I like how I played it. I'm not always 3beting this spot just as I talked about before I was looking for a spot against this villain given my read on him staying from the c/O on me a couple times.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:23 PM   #20
beta1607
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

If you're going to 3-Bet pre, I would go a little bigger to 45.

Other than that NH.
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:05 AM   #21
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

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Originally Posted by beta1607 View Post
If you're going to 3-Bet pre, I would go a little bigger to 45.

Other than that NH.
CO opens $10. BTN raises to $45...

Way excessive. $30 would accomplish the same thing here, and allow us to comfortably fold to a squeeze from the blinds. We also don't want to scream our bluff to the table, as we surely won't make the same 4.5x 3bet when we do have QQ+, AKs.

Making it that large completely kills any chance he calls with a worse hand. If anything, raising larger OTT would be better. The lead of 35 was less that 1/3 pot. Raise it to ~110. Might be able to narrow down villain's range this way as well.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:25 AM   #22
bananapeel
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

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Originally Posted by odogg99 View Post
I don't track every hand hell no lol... I just record a hand after the fact that I want to remember all the details like stack size and the thoughts in my head at the time I played the hand.
Try not to record your name next time Trav
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Old 03-29-2014, 05:07 PM   #23
odogg99
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

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Try not to record your name next time Trav
Hahaha oops! Soul read on my name!
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Old 03-29-2014, 05:16 PM   #24
BigSlick2006
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Of course it's a cooler. The bad part is vill never raises. A passive player like that puke...their calls generally mean strength so you should pot control without stronger hands...possibly checking one street if they keep calling.
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:21 PM   #25
ashes to ashes
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Re: A8d vs 88 stack off OK?

why did you size your 3! so small , if you're going to 3! with a8dd here , make it big.
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