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A5s flops top and bottom pairs A5s flops top and bottom pairs

10-29-2014 , 04:27 AM
Hero has about 450 behind. Limps utg for 5 with A5s. 4 other limpers and sb raises to 15. 6 callers.
Flop comes 8 5 A rainbow
everyone checks to the button who makes it 45 into a 90 pot. Villain hasn't been involved in too many pots, but I don't put him on a set so most of the time I am good here as many players with TPTK at this casino will go all in here... Hero ??.

I'm thinking shove, but are we ever folding here? Perhaps we try to keep the pot smaller to try and represent a higher two pair on turn or river? Min Raise?

Last edited by Garick; 10-29-2014 at 04:32 AM. Reason: took out results
A5s flops top and bottom pairs Quote
10-29-2014 , 04:44 AM
Fold pre unless almost all pots are multi-way limp fests with no raises. Your OOP and playing for overflushes only, which will be super rare.

AP, SB's raise is just a pot sweetener, so you're going to get no folds. The call is OK, but you are folding ace high flops unless you hit 2-pair.

AP to flop, bet it out for about $60. You'll get calls from most aces, and you beat all ace combos but A8. The PF raiser checked already, so you have no way of knowing if anyone will bet this baby for you. Plus, c/r on this dry board will get folds from hands that you want multiple streets of value from.

AP, call flop and hope someone els comes along too. Free cards are unlikely to hurt you, and you want value. Why would you never put V on a set? 88 and 55 are both common hands to limp/call pre. Why would you ever put V on TPTK? Who limp/calls AK multi-way? Shoving loses you tons of value from A9-AJ, which dominates his range and only gets called by better hands. No idea why you are thinking of trying to represent a higher two pair. Why would you put the effective 4th nuts into a bluff? What would a min-raise accomplish? It knocks out the player in between unless they are trapping, and though it probably gets called by V, it shuts down his future streets.

All of this could be avoided if you'd just folded the pretty, but really crap, hand pre from UTG, but AP, just bet/bet/bet and get fat value from the other LP players. If anyone raises on this dry board, fold unless you have a read.
A5s flops top and bottom pairs Quote
10-29-2014 , 07:24 AM
Yes ... I have learned that PF this is something not to do on a regular basis. But you did it, so lets continue.

This is a MUST bet spot OTF so you don't feel compelled to c/r. This pot is 'many'-way (too many) and you need to bet out to thin the herd (but not too much) and also to get value from other hands that may have hit the Flop. Not too many draws out there, so no need to smash the pot here, but bet 40 to 50%.

With you being UTG, most tables will see this as Ax so you may get a ton of folds, but the pot is pretty big to begin with and if you are called in 2 spots, then you are basically all-in on most Turns here.

AP ... Are you actually considering a fold? You hit about as well as you can .. now is not the time to fold. AP you call here and hope at least 1 more comes along. Then lead out on Turn so you dont give a free card to any other AxXx hands out there. A c/r only gets called by sets, maybe AK/AQ. IMO at 2/5 opponents are going to 'know' you were UTG PF and a c/r is super strong for a set the way things went down PF here.

You can see your issue here I hope. Since you were UTG, betting out OTF may scare everyone off except AxXx hands. That's not the real issue though .. how often are you going to out Flop AxXx here? That is where Arag in EP is not +EV in the long run. Fun to look at (and hopefully easy to fold) but you have to really hit a Flop to make hay here and (as you already know, I hope) you only hit the Flop with 1 pair 30% of the time. GL
A5s flops top and bottom pairs Quote

      
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