OP,

It's clear you want to be a home town hero and that you have a case of FPS.
You don't need to win every pot.
And trying to win every pot will cost you money in the long run.

If you beat the game, you should know that in general at low stakes this is going to be a terrible line.
If you don't beat the game, then learn from us that this is going to be a terrible line.

Good luck

Hand is awful,k-q-2 is a worse board than the monotone board because villains are 1st level and play their hands only,this hits more of their range.Have fun with this style while you are running hot,but eventually you will have to come back and retool.

The thing is you guys aren't offering any advice or reasoning. Literally all you are saying is "nah that's a bad bluff". I would appreciate any logical input but if people are just going to say it's -EV without any explanation or mathematical proof than I am forced to dismiss your posts.

I wouldn't be posting this hand if this was a regular line for me. I took advantage of his weak range when he led turn small.

Limp pre. As played, check/fold flop.

You took advantage by flatting turn with air?!? If I think he's weak, when he makes it $45 I insta make it $180.

Overall just not a good spot. As a general rule, Don't bluff unknowns and don't put in lots of money into pots with little to no equity.

What do you do if the river is a brick? Purely as played I like your river shove, since you sort of rep the Ah and he can't really call with anything, but most of the time the river will brick and then what? Are you gonna shove if he makes another weak bet? I don't think you can count on him folding, considering stack sizes. Are you gonna shove if he checks? In that case you'll rep nothing but a missed draw, and the chances of him folding are gonna be a lot slimmer than on this heart river.

So I don't get how you're taking advantage of his weak range. I do get how you're taking advantage of the river being the fourth heart.

Did you look at 1 card PF or both cards? Assuming you looked at both cards I like raising to 21 PF (15 is too small with 2 limpers IMO). Lets try to get the BTN, initiative, a chance to win the pot right there (a great result with 2 limpers and A5s), an excellent chance to win it on the flop if someone calls (and often it will just be heads up if we raise to 21), and even if all that fails we do have a decent hand. Our opponents showed weakness and we have a hand and position. Let's try to fight for this pot.

As played, maybe a smaller bet on the flop could work but I'd probably just give it up right there. If we had raised more PF we likely would at the very least be up against fewer opponents and a bluff would be more profitable, especially if it's heads up.

As played I'd check and fold the turn if I was playing this. We have nothing, no real reads and I wouldn't have a decent plan here besides folding.

River bluff seems okay IMO given the way your opponent played this.

after you posted this:
i'm a little curious how you come to this without offering any real proof:

given this:



as is, i understand the shove on the river. a good player will only snap you off with a big heart. but we don't know if V is a good player or a drooler. V could just as easily have called with something silly like 66x because he's unable to fold. if you were to have said you've played with V for X amount of time and have reads Y, Z, Q, then sure, i have no problem with this. but at 1/2, bluffing unknowns is a game of chicken that often results in Hero (not you specifically, us as a collective) lighting money on fire.

also lost in all of this is the fact that V apparently open limped. so i dont really have high hopes for V being the most skilled player.

I looked down at the Ac and raised and looked at the 5c before the flop came out.

Since his range is like only weak Kx I am shoving almost every river that's not a K A or 9. He doesn't have flush draws as often as people are saying unless it's maybe specifically KxJh. Even so, he is never calling river with that hand. If he has that hand specifically and the 8h comes like it did and he checks it to me, gg him he gets my money. Otherwise, almost his entire range is folding on almost any river when I ship.

What do you guys think his x/c range is OTR on various rivers?

8h?
3s?

For reals? Not crazy about the pre raise. Terrible flop to cbet since with 3 other people somebody is bound to call, then you continue OTT. Once you have several callers pre you need to crush the flop to make it profitable in that situation.

Looking at only one card before raising is pretty dumb, let alone bragging about it on a strategy forum.

I'm not bragging about it. I'm telling you the hand as it happened. I was bored.

Please someone give good input instead of these pointless replies

You need to crush the flop in order to win in a 4 way pot? That's silly.

The only part about my cbet that I don't like is the amount of turns I can't barrel

you're not getting "good" input because the hand is completely absurd to analyze.

A) you're against a complete unknown, so ranging him/her is virtually impossible. you dont even give a description. we get "villain just sat down, $300", so no one can even go with general population reads.

B) you seem to want people to do complex math based on assumptions without doing any yourself to prove why the line you took is ok. you just make blanket statements about Vs range. on top of that, i suspect by the way you've replied to people ITT so far, if someone were to actually do math for this, you would just find some small way to contradict it because you feel you played the hand correctly

C) you don't seem to want to listen to completely rational replies that dont involve math to back it up

sorry that i'm not going to sit here and spoon feed you the math on this, you seem like a smart guy, why don't you do the math on it...

/thread IMO

OP is simply obtuse

Im tottal begginer,just the reader,but i must say few words. River is a absolut best move H could make imo. And does the fact that the V is new at the table and dont have a clue about hero makes this kind of play succesfull. Who is willing to put all chips in just few hands after seating vs a unknown player on tottaly wrecked board and hand, without nuts/scn nuts..
Till river it seems like bad play,dont know extly. And if this is a regular and normal play,you must stop doing it.

HH:
no reads provided on the limpers, or the table in general, no hero image provided including his stack size, all might help feedback; you indicate 4 saw the flop but not the blinds, which would give a pot of $64 minus the rake, but you say the pot is $49, a significant difference for analysis, my other notes assume that the $49 is correct.

PRE:
without table and hero image hard to comment on whether optimal to change range size for AJo vs A6o vs AA; when using a 1 raise size strategy when facing limpers, pot size AP is a very reasonable choice; A8o-A2o is generally a fold in the CO (esp when some villains short) even when playing a LAGish strategy so I guess hero is using "UltraLAG gambol strategy" (gl,hf); whether to raise or overlimp with hands with high IO often hinges on the range of the first limper, better to overlimp when his range is strong, so readless, I'd take a look at the 2nd card and limp most Axs

FLOP
standard would be to check when multiway on a coordinated board as too likely a Villain has caught a piece, if do c-bet, a 2/3ish pot more optimal than 90%pot as it will do the job if they all miss, and costs less if someone crushed it, and leaves FE higher for a later street if a barrel opportunity occurs

TURN
based upon the $ amts in the HH, a turn float needs to be successful roughly more than 60% of the time to be justified (sometimes Villain will bet river, sometimes Hero will river best hand, but 60% is a pretty good number in general here). on bricked rivers, 60% is grossly optimistic in my experience so I'd nearly always fold turn AP (I'd range random Villain at this point in the hand with everything Kx+, weak sizing doesn't change the range much readless IMO, as many Villains bet lol small with their value hands, and many Villains block but don't fold after the block fails)

agree with checking behind turn if villain had checked

RIVER
obvious jam AP

Assuming pot is $59 otf, I like a cbet of $115. This should fold out everything that isn't a flopped flush, 2p or set.

FINALLY some solid input.

Pot was $64 otf. My B. I had to type the OP pretty quickly.

I completely agree with you. Most of the posters in this forum play a very ABC style of poker that very very rarely includes bluffs, and NEVER includes three barrels of air. As such, just ignore their advice unless they actually give you worthwhile input.

On to the hand, I don't like the flat call on the turn. If your read was that V was weak on the turn and he was putting in a blocking bet, raise the turn or fold, because as you know, the flush is getting there on the river only 1 out of five times, so that call on the turn is almost like lighting money on fire.

I'm not convinced that villain is so weak on the turn. That's why I'm not so excited about calling and bluffing the river. Villain could have Kx but I could also see villain having 22 for a set, two pair hands like KT, KQ and QT, AJ for the straight, and I would not be surprised to see a weaker flush. I definitely could see villain calling the flush on the flop to slowplay, and then acting first on the turn and thinking "Oh wait, the pot is getting big and I don't want it checked behind me so I'm gonna bet now. Let's see $46 should get a call."

Against an unknown I don't get why we should assume this villain is so weak. Kx might just c/c or even c/f this turn depending on how big the bet is. A lot of villains get timid on these types of boards, and I wouldn't expect them to bet marginal stuff here.

Also, if villain has hands like the ones I just mentioned, he might be loose enough to call with those on the river, even against a shove. It depends on the villain. This line MIGHT be effective against the right villain, but I think it's too early for us to know that.

You think double- and triple-barreling unknowns is a profitable style of play?

I guess I'm a weak, ABC-style player.

Wow... 2x pot cbet bruff with zero reads, in a 4 way flop.

Now I know why I haz the sux at this game.

In case anyone was still unsure if the wsop cash games are off the hook, read this thread.