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A4s, Call a Blind Shove A4s, Call a Blind Shove

09-08-2018 , 08:04 PM
NL 1/2
Poker is not dead. Hero has been in so many loose and wild games it's difficult to count over the past six months. What's going on? But Hero has not had a good September so far. Lost $400 yesterday and today I'm in for 400 with 200 before this hand. I lost QQ<to AA, and lost to a straight with a set. Hero is viewed as a tight-aggressive/nit player by the table. Most of these players are non-observant (in my opinion) and want to gamble.

Villain is a 70 yo BG who seems like a nice fellow. He bought in for 200 and was down to 25 when he began blind shoving. He didn't get a call for the first three and everyone folded. He's at 55. Hero knows this and has A4

Is this Okay to call a blind shove here and come over the top? What do you think? It's folded to Hero who limps in MP. SB completes and Villain in the BB shoves for 55. Hero reshoves as SB is covered by Hero (maybe 65 or so). Is this what you would do or is it spewage on my part? I thought having an ace was key in this situation. Am I wrong?
A4s, Call a Blind Shove Quote
09-08-2018 , 10:16 PM
down to about Q5o will show a profit against a blind range. of course we are calling, if you're sure he didn't look. i assume you limped to trap his next blind shove.
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09-09-2018 , 02:31 AM
I called $92 blind last week with Q6 suites. I realize now it was a mistake because I was HJ and still had four people left to act. CO and BTN both call.

Fortunately I flopped top pair and shoved. Got two callers (I was ahead here) and won.

A4 is a clear call.


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09-09-2018 , 02:33 AM
its a high fives to your entourage situation.
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09-09-2018 , 02:43 AM
Don't limp vs shortstacks with these kind of hands, if you are sure he didn't look sure call but it's not an amazing spot or anything especially if the action is not closed
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09-09-2018 , 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8o8
down to about Q5o will show a profit against a blind range. of course we are calling, if you're sure he didn't look. i assume you limped to trap his next blind shove.
I did not know that about Q5. Thanks so much for the feedback.
Yes, I was trying to prevent him from saying, "Now that you raised I'll look at my cards."
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09-09-2018 , 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k
I called $92 blind last week with Q6 suites. I realize now it was a mistake because I was HJ and still had four people left to act. CO and BTN both call.

Fortunately I flopped top pair and shoved. Got two callers (I was ahead here) and won.

A4 is a clear call.


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OK, in this case, the fellow in SB had AK but as I said I covered him. We both lost to BB's 106
He paired his 6.

Yeah he was shoving blind. Some retirees have lots of cash to spend and aren't OMCs. I didn't know that until this year lol.
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09-09-2018 , 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by josofo
its a high fives to your entourage situation.
I seriously wonder if it's true that a lot of the guys who read all the poker books have now faded away from the game. A guy I used to think was good a couple of years ago called my shove Friday with an open-ended straight draw on the TURN. He got there but i was astounded. I had 2 pair and was an 81 to 18 favorite. Has he forgotten about odds? Don't know honestly. The players I have lost the most to this year have been the degens but really only since June until then i was dodging the raindrops.
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09-09-2018 , 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Don't limp vs shortstacks with these kind of hands, if you are sure he didn't look sure call but it's not an amazing spot or anything especially if the action is not closed
Thing is if you raise, they'll say "now I have to look." 10/6 fold. I was a favorite (against him) but he managed to hit his card.
A4s, Call a Blind Shove Quote
09-09-2018 , 07:34 AM
This is a snap call.

Heck, depending on the V I might even take this line myself. (Ex. I had a Villain who would call preflop with ATC and it was critical to get his money before someone else did. So I shoved every Ace I had and turned $200 into $2k.)
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09-09-2018 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagodude
Thing is if you raise, they'll say "now I have to look." 10/6 fold. I was a favorite (against him) but he managed to hit his card.
It's not about being a 59% favorite vs atc, the problem is you have no good way of dealing with better hands limping behind you and a bad/tough hand to play on a lot of flops If other players do call behind you. I think you are putting yourself in a terrible position for a pretty small win in the best case. And limping is not even clearly +ev because of that.

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09-09-2018 , 03:59 PM
This might depend on whether other people at the table knew he was gonna shove blind. If they did, then I'd fold. If they didn't, I'd probably reshove, dunno.

If we were last to act this would be a clear shove, but with others left to act, I can get behind a fold. We're not THAT far ahead of two random cards.
A4s, Call a Blind Shove Quote
09-09-2018 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
It's not about being a 59% favorite vs atc, the problem is you have no good way of dealing with better hands limping behind you and a bad/tough hand to play on a lot of flops If other players do call behind you. I think you are putting yourself in a terrible position for a pretty small win in the best case. And limping is not even clearly +ev because of that.

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That's a good point. Well stated.
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09-09-2018 , 10:02 PM
If SB knows BB is shoving then he shouldn’t be completing his SB with mediocre hands (why throw away a dollar when you know what’s coming?). I’d be afraid that his range here has me crushed and that’s more important than how A5s performs against ATC. Your limp was fine but I’d fold with the SB in play having “position” in this instance.
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09-10-2018 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkesDave
If SB knows BB is shoving then he shouldn’t be completing his SB with mediocre hands (why throw away a dollar when you know what’s coming?). I’d be afraid that his range here has me crushed and that’s more important than how A5s performs against ATC. Your limp was fine but I’d fold with the SB in play having “position” in this instance.
+1 I like our plan until someone behind also limps. I disagree that raising in front of the BB is best here. V is giving us an opportunity to scoop 30+ BBs by limp raising pretty much every hand. If we raise ourselves we are much less likely to be in as good of a +EV situation.

IMO: 59% of 30BB > A4hh against an out of position calling range.
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09-10-2018 , 02:06 PM
Raising when we know BB will raise if limped to is really, really bad. This hand is strong enough to limp. When SB completes I'm not too concerned as I see people limp/fold in this type of spot surprisingly often.

You want a hand that makes enough money when you can limp/GII to make up for the times you have to limp/fold when you aren't heads up, or limp/GII when someone behind you has a better hand.

It would be interesting to calculate the equilibrium strategy here for each position given the knowledge that BB is shoving 100%. I suspect that SB can complete pretty wide even knowing that hero intends to call a shove, since he only loses a dollar when hero does call and he can't, but wins a decent amount HU with the BB when hero limp/folds. In reality SB is probably either completing either way too tight just to trap with big hands or completing way too often just to fold when shoved on.
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