1/2 live - Main V and Hero are about $350 effective

V is a solid, tight (almost nitty in my experience with him, but not quite) player.

V UTG limps, 2 MPs limp. Hero raises to $16 in LP with A3hh. All three limpers call.

Flop ($60) A32ccc

Checks to Hero. This flop was pretty awkward. I admittedly need to do a lot more studying on monotone flops so go easy on me and my "thinking" .

I decided to bet $60. I didn't want to check because I didn't want to let a 4th club come with 3 V's in the hand. I bet big because I thought that if a V was willing to call a smaller bet they would probably also be willing to call a larger bet. The hands I wanted to call were AxXc or unsuited broadway cards with a club. I didn't get too concerned that someone flopped a flush because 1) it's just rare and 2) the Ac was on the board. This eliminates a lot of the limp-calling range of V's that flops a flush. I thought hands like KQcc would have raised preflop. Weaker suited Kc hands like KJcc, Ktcc, K9cc, etc would be pretty loose limp-calls OOP for $16. If any V flopped a flush I thought it would end up being a hand like 78cc, 89cc, etc - and I still have a chance to bluff them off this type of hand.

UTG player raises to $150. 2 MPs fold. Because I had V labeled as a tight player I saw very few flushes in his range. The same logic as above follows for this player. I think if he does have a flush it is 8,9, 10 high. If he does have those flushes I think he will fold to a jam. I also think he can have an A with a J or Q of clubs or a hand like A2/A3 suited.

Given that I think he can fold his mediocre flushes I jam for about $335 total.

What do you think about this hand and what do you think in general, about getting it in with top two/sets on monotone flops?

I don't think you have as much fold equity as you think. V will be getting better than 2-1 to call so very unlikely he folds a flush. He could also hold a combo draw on that board which he might be willing to go with as well.

It is just a really tough board for your hand after that raise. Just so many ways you can be beaten, especially by someone you describe as "solid, tight, almost nitty" . I hate folding but man it might be the best play vs this V.

What was your plan after the $60 bet?

Also, pre flop are you always iso’ing with AXs? How often do you limp this hand behind to keep other V’s with worst AhXH in?

The thing that’s concerning for me is, we’ve shown a lot of strength throughout this hand, 16 pre, 60 cbet and v x/r flop that smacks H range with Ace high... I can see him playing most of his flushes for value here, AxKc AxQc etc. only 4 set combos (22,33) maybe A2 some of the time. Other than that I think his range primarily flopped flushes, AxKc AxQc. It’s a shove or fold spot, it just depends on how l/c happy your V is for this to be a shove or fold. Does he get out of line post? Especially multi way?


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Youre going to get yourself into any number of tough situations by raising this hand to $16 preflop. There are very few better hands to over limp with in LP. Surely even the "I never limp" crowd can see that if you ever want to limp, this is the perfect hand and perfect situation for it?

As played, I check the flop back. So what if you give them a free card? If someone has a club another one is only going to hit the turn once in 5 times. So 1 time in 5 you give up when the club hits and you lose no more money. The other 4 times, they have now lost a ton of their equity in the hand with only one card to come.

This is extra good advice for someone who pounds the turn, gets check raised and doesnt know he needs to fold. You said hes a tight player so he doesnt have many flushes in his range. OK, fine. But once this tight player check raises you his range is a flush and thats about it. Find the fold button.

When you look at the win rate thread and see people talking about 10 buy in losing streaks are nothing to be concerned with and happen regularly, think back to this hand and a different way you couldve played it. You can play solid poker with a high win rate without riding the variance train to hell.

+1

V is a solid, tight player yet he limps UTG and calls a raise with the range you gave him -- and will raise you on this board w/ a weak flush or two pair and then fold? Does not compute.

I highly doubt you have FE, but you know him better than we do. However, what can he put you on to make him fold? If he has a weak flush, is he folding if he thinks you have AA or AxKc? Would you bet pot with a K- or Q-high flush?

Again, you know him better than we, but solid, almost nitty, players don't do this (limp/call, check/raise almost half their stack and then fold).

Haven’t read any responses but nobody is folding a flush here. This is very spewy

Pre is fine, aslong as people are limping weak capped ranges and lp means the cutoff or btn

Post is spew

very quick thoughts on this one:
-as noted by another poster, this is a terrific spot to limp Axs pre flop. mixing it up with a raise now and again makes sense but mostly, I'm limping here and seeing cheap flops.
-checking back the flop is an interesting choice. then you can either bomb turn or run if a club hits. maybe you get lucky and fill up.
-after you bet 60 and get raised by a player described as almost nitty, feels like a fold. which is a good reason to check back the flop; you pretty much are bet/fold the flop with your hand, and then you kick yourself for betting.

Even though I am an OMC, never once have I successfully pushed someone off ANY flush at 1/2. After twenty or more tries I ceased trying. YMMV but consider a geezer's anecdotal evidence that our fold equity against a made flush is pretty darn slim.

Thanks everybody for the responses.

I suspected it was pretty poorly played on my part but wanted hear some of the reasoning from other people.

I definitely don't like betting so big on the flop. And I pretty much leveled myself into the shove on the flop.

I generally subscribe to the never limp mindset, especially in LP, but I can see a limp with suited Aces in LP.

Also, V limp-called as the first caller with K9cc - time to reevaluate my image of him....

As part of the "I (almost) never limp" crew if I ever over limp hands it's suited wheel aces. You make the nuts + some straights on a fairly frequent basis. That being said I think raising is still fine, from the button I'd go ahead and raise this hand.

Potting the flop is good imo. I'm still looking for reasoning for people who don't agree with potting/near potting it on monotone flops. If I'm going to bet it I'm going to deny equity the best I can, multi-way you're almost guaranteed to be up against a flush draw. If I flop a flush I pot it as well.

Your play isn't as bad as some here have made it out to be. I can't see your average fish folding 2 pair here, and you're kind of at the point where you're committed or folding. Ace + flush draws are possible from him here and there are quite a few combos there. You still have ok equity vs flushes. The guy limp-called with K9s, he's not a super nit he's a classic fish.

Final note this guy is NEVER folding a flush. He may sit and moan about having a 9 high flush on this board but he's calling every time.

I'm not sure I agree with the people saying check this flop, seems like a pretty clear bet for value. We have the best hand here a high percentage of the time, we have a lot of top pair and flush draw hands we can get value from, and unless they have the Kc I don't think they are bluff raising here too often. I guess you could check flop and be prepared to call turn and river but that seems like a bad line that's going to miss value. I think a more interesting spot is what to do on a blank turn after betting flop.

As played just fold. You are uncapped here and be's still raising you on a monotone board multiway. If he limp called you with KcJd and made this move then good for him.

I usually like limping suited aces because they are easy to play postflop and can make money if you flush over flush someone, or trips over trips someone with your low card. Raising isn't terrible, but I think I prefer a limp.

I bet this flop like 100% of the time. $45-60 sounds good. You're going to get called by high flush draws and aces a lot here.

I fold to the check-raise. It's unrealistic to expect him to fold low flushes because (a) no one folds flopped flushes and (b) stacks are too shallow and you have no fold equity. This is a slightly-ahead/way-behind scenario and you have to ask yourself what he really checks the flop with, and then raises a pot-sized bet from you. It's usually heavily weighted toward flushes. Best case is you still have to dodge a flush draw and even then wouldn't he just check/shove that instead of making an intermediate sized raise?

Nice post.

I'd only raise PF here if I had really good reason to believe I'd take it down pre. Like some tell on the initial limper. A player as described is probably limp calling when UTG, often with small and medium PPs and maybe something like AQ and JTsuited. Especially with 2 more limpers, knowing he can trigger a call by the other 2 when he calls.

OTF I bet much smaller. Though, I notice I'm often out of step with this forum in that I often make smaller bets, so maybe I'm often wrong. You mentioned being uncomfortable with monotone boards, so maybe you lapsed into a "take it down now" mentality to overcome that uncertainty.

Worse hands are not going to be willing to put in a ton of action on such a scary board, with the exceptions of A2 and AKh.

Mike's check seems OK to me too.

Limp pre (see note below); ~45 OTF. Snap fold.

Unless you're comfortable being able to pour on the aggression selectively and accurately to move the tight guy off his good hands, this isn't a good 3b spot. You can't 3b and play make a hand; you have to be able to manipulate your opponent. Limping should be profitable. It's not a great squeeze spot unless you have a read that tight guy raise/folds in EP a lot.

I can see why one might check this flop, but I'm betting it. I don't see any need to make it a full PSB though. $45 or $50 should do the trick: make random clubs either surrender their considerable equity or pay too much for it.

Tight guy x/r a pot-committing amount? Yeah, FE is roughly 0 here. Even a naked Ac has the right odds to call and roughly no one is folding a flush getting 2+:1.

Let me be the 3rd to say: "Spot on!"