Whale plays a very wide range pre and is capable of putting in big bluffs. Other V seems loose passive.

1/3 live, H is the effective stack with $400. M

Straddle, H opens 9d9s +2 to $30 and gets two calls including button straddle whale.


Flop Ks5h3s.

Xxx. I mix it up betting and checking this flop but OOP to the agro whale I thought checking was best.

Turn 6h.

Pot:$90

H $65, whale calls. I doubt they are protecting their checking ranges so time for some value.

Pot: $220

River Ah. Hearts get there.

V leads $135

H?

AP fold, not a good river.

I like a check on the turn oop against 2 players to get a cheap showdown, pot is already 90 and would be nice to win it. If river is brick, you can bet if you think V will call light (but I prefer betting river than turn) and probably not a 2 streets value hand... but you know more your Vilain so you tell me...

Turn – I’d check and evaluate. There are some JJ/TT/65 combos ahead and hand is 3-way OOP. If raised, fold? If you want to bet, maybe $40-45, cheaper (to fold) when facing a raise.

As played, folding river. AsXs/Aces up/BD hearts all hit.

How is the whale leading into us when he's OTB? I'm going to assume you checked and he bet river.

I'm cbetting the flop, I don't think you get floated or fooled around with too much on K53. Checking sets yourself up to get outplayed and most turns are bad for us. If we bet we at least represent a king for the rest of the hand. When we check it looks like we have exactly what we have, a weakish pocket pair. Checking to an agro whale seems like the worst option, since he is an agro whale he will just be agro, why give him the chance?

AP on the turn I would bet large and just try to win the pot. At this point there are very few good cards for us on river and both V's have told us they don't have a made hand.

I thought the whale straddled the button how can he lead out otr?

Anyway since the Ace and King are in your range and he still donked out otr, just fold. If he doesn't have an ace he probably has a king but you know this guy more than we do. Does he lead out on rivers with ace high?

Is preflop just to juice pot for making it easier to get in stacks if we hit? Because otherwise I'm not too pumped at building a pot OOP (whale is always calling on the Button, right?) where we're going to hate most runouts, especially against an aggro player, especially for this rather huge non-juicing price.

I don't mind postflop and assume we checked the river. Not a great river as the backdoor flush got there, as did the Axs draw, as did some other Ax hands that had aready hit x, plus it's possible we were behind the whole time. Spades did bust (although don't they bet the flop?), but not a lotta of other draws did (some straight draws that didn't get there have showdownable hands that might not bluff). Meh spot, which basically goes back to preflop (i.e. don't build huge pots OOP against someone who is capable of stealing them).

GcluelessNLnoobG

You’ve got to bet this flop.

GG idk if you misread but we have pocket nines

GG recommends limping every single one of your playable hands from EP, including AA and KK (no I'm not exaggerating)

Agree.

Folding as played.

Just a drawing hand obv

Grunch

I would bet this flop 100% but w/e. Checking isn't bad per se but IMO makes a lot of turns difficult to play (any card T+). I go the easy route.

Turn seems fine.

River...this is why I like betting flop. If we had bet the flop we could narrow his range down a lot better and have more to go on in deciding whether it's a bluff. He could have some random nonsense like 6x he has decided to turn into a bluff or "probe bet".

Still there aren't a lot of potential bluffs unless he calls the turn with all kinds of garbage. There are no busted draws besides 98 97 87 and 64. I know he's loose but do we think he has all these combos?

Since the main draw came in plus AX and there are a lot of plausible turned / rivered 2p I think we should lay it down.

BTW are you OOP or no? You said he leads river. I think a fold whether he led or bet after a check but it does change things a bit.

Read flop as rainbow. We REALLY need to bet it with two spades. Turn I would bet larger with the two FDs. River he does have more bluffs now but since we checked the flop OOP, he has more hearts OTR since spades bet the flop at some frequency (sounds like a high frequency as described).

So...still a fold. But not as simple as a rainbow flop.

In my experience even aggro whales are show down monkeys if u check it to them on the riv, so I’m finding a fold

I should have specified, V bet river out of turn. No idea if it was an accident or some kind of level.

Results: hero folds, V shows 2h.

I think betting flop is very reasonable and would definitely be my line heads up or 3 ways against people with low bluff frequencies. I probably still should have put out a bet against two people who are playing this wide, thanks for the feedback.

If V bet out of turn you should call

The out of turn bet is pretty important. This is usually polarizing. I expect he has a flush or nothing before he shows. After he shows the 2h he either had the flush or 42o and didn't want to show both...I guess he could have A2o for a wheel draw turned TP. The only bluff with a 2 that makes sense to me is 22, which picked up a gutshot OTT.

ON this relatively dry flop I bet small 25-35% flop with my entire range and 2 barrel with high frequency.

Who cares? We've got huge stacks behind and we're going to be OOP to a guy who ain't ABC and we're going to hate most flops and run outs.

GcluelessNLnoobG

You have a pair though. A good one! It’s hard to make pairs.

Well, by the river (which is where we were headed with the whale always, amirite?) our pair was mostly likely going to be exactly what it turned up being: a fairly crappy ~third pair that hates the run out, and in a craptastic spot OOP to someone who isn't just going to turn over his hand saying "I missed".

GcluelessNLnoobG

Yeah sometimes we don't get nut runouts.

But in general we have the best hand OTF about 67% and by the river around 50%. This flop is actually above average as the other players have a K or better about 15% each. Meanwhile they have quite a few draws we can get value from both OTF and on favorable turns. Sometimes we get the nut low river card. Whatever. Doesn't make the raise any less profitable. 99 is very profitable as a raise from ANY position and if it isn't for you, you're doing it wrong.

Just keep knitting that sweater until you flop top set or find AA vs KK

Well, OP isn't knitting a sweater and look where it got him; playing a massive pot OOP against a non-ABC guy with a incredibly mediocre hand (which was going to be the result the vast majority of the time).

GactuallyfindssweaterstooitchyG

How is the result we lose the vast majority of the time when these guys' garbage ranges mean one of them has a better hand OTF about 27%? Meanwhile each player has a worse pair 15%, an OESD or FD around 10%, and a GS another 10%. A whale likely calls all of these hands for 35%, while let's guess the other guy folds his gutshots and 1/3 his pairs. Then he calls with a worse hand 25%. Collectively we get called by a worse hand 51.25% assuming they do not raise these hands. That's not even counting all the nonsense the whale might float like AX. This is a super easy value bet.

I'm even betting the turn vs the whale if we get a nice blank like the 8h. And the 6h is not that bad to bet. The river we can x/c or x/f or even b/f (usually the first two). Yes there are players so stationy I would go for three streets on good runouts. But then again I'm a maniac right?

FWIW... pretty sure OP makes like twice what you do at 1/3, so I find you critiquing his play with your absurdly nitty advice not to raise a top 5% starting hand rather funny.