His intent was to purposely slowplay or 3b pf. When it gets heads up deep stacked, the possibility of aa/77 would be very real to me. Only way I can call off river is if I know V is willing to take this line with 2p or if he's really horrible - bluff on a missed fd.

I don't disagree. I win a lot of decent pots that way too. But this is how the hand was played; I'm not trying to find better ways to play it, I'm trying to establish how to work with what we've gotten into

Good thoughts, I will keep this in consideration. Aspects of what you said was definitely part of my thought process AFTER I got 3betted lolol

deep yeah, but my CR set up a 2:1 call on the river when he shipped. can we really fold given the odds and possible combos of hands?

i wish we were 3K+ deeper, hand dynamics would've changed a bunch and this might not be a post

I think the river's close/whatever. Your x/r is far-and-away the best line, and once he shoves, you just have to crying-surrender to the cooler.

When there's a part of the hand where it's all "Well, shucks, this is close" and there are other parts of the hand where more obvious value was lost, etc, then I don't think it's productive to zoom-in exclusively on the "gross" part of the hand or whatever. The real problems with the hand lie in the earlier streets where we could have gotten fatter value with the 3rd nuts in a spot where the 2nd nuts are insanely unlikely and there's only one combo of the nuts, and if there's a way we could have gotten stacks in without feeling like they almost always have those 1.3 combos (or however many it is), then that's almost assuredly the better line.

If you had a hand that was the actual immortal nuts (ie: 77 in this case), then it's more acceptable to put yourself in a spot where you only get stacks in when villain has the second nuts.

I like the b/c river line a lot actually. In a sense it's a bit of pot control and doesn't put you in a spot for your whole stack when (according to history) that only means bad things. Also the worst thing that can happen here (minus what did lol) is you check river and he checks back 7X because you slowed him down by calling him on the turn and he just wants to get to showdown.

So on the river:

We check. Worst case he checks behind and me miss value. If he bets we have to somewhat blindly guess if we can get value from worse with a CR (that looks very strong). Maybe we catch one bet as a bluff and occasionally we get called by A7, q7, 97, but when he reraises us we are in a tough spot.

We bet. We get called by everything worse and realize full value. We get raised and call the extra bet with good equity without having to risk entire stacks. There is no 3 bet option here, very unlikely you can get called by worse because a river 3 bet is almost never a bluff unless there is a lot of history here.

You CR'ed because you thought you were ahead and trying to get value, right? How about after he shoves? Not criticizing you btw. I'd probably go broke in a similar spot. There are many great posters on here that will elaborate on a much better (and deeper) level so feel free to take what I say with a pinch of salt. I feel like finding a fold in tough spots is something we have to be able to do and an important part of any players arsenal.

I don't disagree with the math, but if I was in your shoes, I'd have to step back and look at the entire picture. An auto pilot mindset of "I have a FH, have the odds" sounds expensive. Bottom line, I have the fourth nuts. Third discounting QQ.

77
AA
QQ
99 - us
A7
Q7
97

As I said previously, unless my reads told me V would snap off with 2p or horrible lines, I'm wary of a competent V shoving the remainder of his deep stack. Only way V snaps off with lower x7 FHs is if he puts you on some 2p or horrible line as well.

Yes we should find a fold in a lot of spots like this but not this one because we are getting such a good price (ie even if we are behind more than we are ahead this is still a call.) Fact is there is only one combo of 77 and 3 combos of AA. I think we are beat more times than not but we are ahead enough of the time that we have to call.

Btw, players at this level make mistakes all the time. Even seemingly good ones.

Correct. I thought I was ahead and I set up for the river CR because I was certain he'd barrel river. When he shipped it almost snapped but I pulled my hand back and had think about wth just happened.

ie: me

Lol but no major mistakes made here. This really is a cooler.

So the turn ...

V raises 3x.

A premium pp (10s, Js, Qs, Ks) doesn't make a lot of sense. First he'd have to believe hero doesn't have an A or 7. Secondly why now? Weird line.

Can we not assume he's playing his hand face up?

AA / 77 / A7 / x7.

Two hands we lose to, two hands we crush.

Q on the river changes nothing imo but if you wanna open it up to QQ / Q7, then the status quo remains basically the same.

Three hands crush us, three hands we beat. Discounting garbage. Odds aside ...

I think we have to lead river to make sure we don't lose value on 7X, and call if he raises because our lead looks like a blocking bet from 7x ourselves and his range remains the same, 77, A7, 97, AA, 50% of which we still beat.

Sticking with bet/call here

V never has QQ here.
Ever.

V also has Q7 here almost never.

Also, think about this.
If he's shipping here with A7s or Q7s (which he doesn't have in his range) what is he trying to get called by? What does he think that you have?

If we're going to assume that Villain never makes it to the river with A7s/Q7s, then we might as well say that Villain never has AA here either. I can see why you're discounting them, but I think both of those hands are more likely than AA.

This is why it's bad to include results before the discussions settled.

As described V is at least reasonable.
I pretty much never see a reasonable player limp in with Q7s. And then call a bet on the flop with two overs. We should have reads that he is a drooler or station if he can show up with Q7 here after calling the flop.

Not that it doesn't happen, but its just very rare from a decent player imo.

As for A7s, I wasn't saying that he doesn't get ot the river with it, I was only saying that he doesn't get to the river with Q7.

sorry i can't fold

PS - results have been posted already?

I'm not saying it's not rare; I'm comparing it to the likelihood of him having AA.

Limping Q7s behind two players in LP 450bbs deep can be described as kind of loose. I wouldn't generally do it, but overlimping AA in the same situation is at least as absurd (I'd say I do the former more often, fwiw).

Then there's calling the flop with Q7ss which is bottom pair + double backdoors when the bettor's range is mostly draws and TPNKs. I wouldn't advise it with 3 players left to act, but I wouldn't exactly advice flatting AA here either for the same reason.

Granted, that's 1 combo compared to 3, but I just think we're letting ourselves get blinded by the results when we completely disregard hands like Q7s or even the occasional bluff yet don't bat an eye at including AA.

Um high five the dealer, try not to hit anyone with my massive boner and call.

Sorry your college homie limped AA

yes. i did wait a bit and let a few responses fly so it would be disguised in the thread. villian had AA

i couldn't reach the dealer. i gave villian a little fist bump before i racked up lol

What is OP doing with your massive boner in the first place?

to defend myself, absolutely nothing.