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99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? 99 on BU preflop, are you calling here?

07-24-2014 , 10:40 AM
1/2 game, pretty soft game overall, hero is up about 150 this session.

Sitting with about 360, dealt 99 on the button.

Villain in this hand just sat down two hands prior, hasn't played a hand and I have no previous history with him. His stack is about 110$, and I'll add in that hes an older asian fellow

Villain raises 5$ from Utg (standard raises in these games are usually 8-10+, and it's not uncommon to see $20~ preflop raises get multiple callers)

2 other callers, folded to me, I make it 23.

Sb, bb fold, utg shoves for 100~ish, other 2 players fold.

Are you raising that button? If so are you calling here?

I'd typically put an unknown in this room on a range of 77+ and A10+ KQs in this situation.
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Last edited by JewBear; 07-24-2014 at 10:50 AM.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 10:47 AM
This is close but I'm usually calling.. Short stack that shoves early in session prob just looking to gamble and there's a lot more flips in his range than dominating hands.

I'm not usually 3betting against a short stack open with mid pairs though as id rather just avoid this spot. Calling usually brings in blinds as well so I'd just be looking to set mine multiway.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunkpirate
This is close but I'm usually calling.. Short stack that shoves early in session prob just looking to gamble and there's a lot more flips in his range than dominating hands.

I'm not usually 3betting against a short stack open with mid pairs though as id rather just avoid this spot. Calling usually brings in blinds as well so I'd just be looking to set mine multiway.
I agree, I regretted the raise, as I was put in a tight spot. The first paragraph was my thought process as well after the shove.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 10:54 AM
I don't like 3 betting unknown short stacks for this exact reason...you have no idea where you're at now. I believe that your range for villain is much too wide for an unknown...don't have a wide range in these spots until you see differently. Default range for V in this spot would be TT+, AQ+...

Flipping a coin at best though but even more likely is you're up against a higher pocket pair....I advocate a fold.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 06:50 PM
At the table I would probably play it the same way. Although sitting here at my desk, I'm seeing the benefits of set-mining.

You gotta figure that any raise that has any hope of thinning the field induces a shove from villain, who obviously likes his hand, and obviously came here to double up (that's why you buy in short, right?) So without firing up the stove, I would think you're flipping for the loose change in the pot already. Your EV probably won't cover the tip if you win.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 07:27 PM
We had a nice thing set up here, with a somewhat built up multiway pot, position, and a fine hand to take into it. Reraising throws that out the window.

As played, fold to the shove. It's thin at best to call off, esp with it being a near unknown jamming on you.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 07:48 PM
An unknown makes a small raise in EP, then shoves against 3 bet. I'd be surprised his range even includes AK. I fold this easily. If he's doing this light, he'll do it to death and you'll felt him later.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
An unknown makes a small raise in EP, then shoves against 3 bet. I'd be surprised his range even includes AK. I fold this easily. If he's doing this light, he'll do it to death and you'll felt him later.
what do you think about flatting pre?
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 09:19 PM
Im flatting in this spot. Did he raise $5 to $7 total or did he raise $3 to $5 total? I could be wrong but i see people in 1-2 games make it $7-9 total with QQ+ to not scare everyone into folding first to act. He got more callers than he wanted and is now not happy taking his monster multiway to the flop. In the games I play, Id be surprised if he didnt turn over at LEAST QQ.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 09:31 PM
Old asian man has the nuts, shoulda set mined. Like venice said I'd be amazed if even AK was in his range.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-24-2014 , 09:55 PM
I'm ok with a flat or raise PF but a raise seems best since you're very likely ahead here and have the button. Little PF pot sweetener raises like this are usually mid PPs and SC. It looks like you ran I to the top of his range here so it's an easy fold for me.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 05:39 AM
Really hate this spot with 99. Flat pre and look to stack somebody if you connect. As played, I probably fold and kick myself for 3- betting into the shortstacking initial raiser without much of a plan.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 09:54 AM
Yeah you know there's probably a deeper truth here; some of it is a question of the optimal 3betting range at this level. Had a good thread on that a year or so ago, typical thing where Venice comes in with a one-sentence Zen post that keeps you up at night thinking.

So the theory is, you three bet really great hands, and not great hands, and then flat the ones in the middle. It's not really a question of balancing your range for deception. Don't think so anyway. Really more of a good use of equity. So you 3bet AA cuz you're so far ahead and want to get money in good. You 3bet I dunno 89s because a little fold equity might come in handy, now or on a later street. Neither one really applies to 99.

Especially in this hand, where your strategy for one player is at cross purposes with the rest. The one guy we are way behind, need improvement, have no fold equity. Against the rest, we are probably a little ahead already, not really eager to turn our hand into a bluff. Which, I guess is the definition of "medium strength hand," eh?
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 10:45 AM
i find a fold here.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 01:32 PM
flat pre...pot is already built up a little if you connect on flop, hate the 3b because if someone 4bets you have no clue where you are...if someone else 3bets you can flat and stack someone if you connect...just hate the 3b pre...and the answere is no im folding to the 4bet
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randinho
Old asian man has the nuts, shoulda set mined. Like venice said I'd be amazed if even AK was in his range.
Old Asian men can be the most degen of anyone in a casino, I don't know why you'd make the assumption he's a nit.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 02:31 PM
Not 3-betting because of how short UTG is. I'm not folding once he shoves, it's just an unnecessary spot to get into. You need to be aware of the people [unconsciously] short-stacking.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 02:47 PM
Grunch
Looks like a pot-sweetener limp RR. Too many big pairs in his range. Doubt he does this with lower pairs, you say 77 and 88, but that sounds iffy to me. I doubt AT and AJ do this. Probably not even AQo, so I range him (obv OP has more info, but from that given) TT+, AQs+. Don't have Stove right now, but just from combos, that's 16 for AK, 4 for AQs where you're about 50/50, and 6 x 6 = 36 combos where you're about 20%. Def. fold.
Re the 3bet, I would usually just call for set mining (assuming the in between callers are deeper than V, though you can also set mine V since his open is so small). 3betting being good depends on whether V's are playing fitorfold postflop - usually are at 1/2 versus a 3bet. But are they sharp enough to know that you could 3bet light from the button in a good squeeze situation? Lot's of unknowns.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 03:23 PM
Just used Pokercruncher, shows H has 32.9% equity against AQs+, TT+.
Assuming $5 rake, there is 110+5+5+23+1+2-5 = 141 in the pot when it's H's action.
It costs H 87 to call. So H's pot odds are 141 to 87 = 87/(141+87) = 38.2%. The pot odds are worse than your equity, so you should fold, but it's closer than I thought.

Last edited by pokerodox; 07-25-2014 at 03:40 PM.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote
07-25-2014 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirdman
Old Asian men can be the most degen of anyone in a casino, I don't know why you'd make the assumption he's a nit.
Personal experience I guess. 95% of older asian men here are nits. I'm talking like 50+ here fwiw.
99 on BU preflop, are you calling here? Quote

      
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