Hi all,

1/2 home game.

Game is playing pretty tight for the most part. A lot of action players have left.

V1: Has been playing generally very tight for the most part. He has rarely been raising preflop. He has about $150 to start the hand. Generally he overfolds probably too much. Seen him make a few nice calls though.

V2: new guy. He's older been here for about half an hour. Mostly limping pre and calling some raises in position. He has about 140.

H: I have about $600 to start. Youngest guy at the table. Raising pre a lot. Playing in position. Won a big pot off with quads against V1.

OTTH: V1 opens UTG for $8 (standard) we are in the cutoff and flat with 89. I figure we have good implied odds here. V2 is in the BB and reraises to $24 (which we don't like) V1 just flats. We think about folding...? but call as well.

($75) Flop: 8k7 V2 checks V1 checks and we check

($75)Turn: 6 V2 bets $15 V1 calls and we call (we have an open ended straight draw and a pair. Obviously we don't want a diamond and I think either V bets flop with diamonds)

($120) River: 3V2 checks, V1 checks, we think about it.... We bet $50 turning our hand into a bluff.

Thoughts?

Pre and flop look good.

Raise turn to set up a 65% psb river bet on non-diamond rivers.

As played, your river bet is too small and you are giving really good pot odds for someone to bluff catch you/you also don't rep much.

I think folding pre is the best option

they aren't deep enough where suited connectors will be profitable IMO

as played if you think villain can fold JJ-QQ then go for it

I don't mind the first flat, and I guess the second is OK, but then you don't use your position, so what's the point of continuing on the river? Bet the flop or raise the turn.

On river, just use the little bit of showdown value you have (or bet bigger to make them at least think about folding anything better than an 8).

River bet after flatting the tiny turn is really weird. You got to showdown cheaply. I wouldn’t bother investing any more in the pot. Just check it back and expect to lose most of the time.

You don’t actually need to try to win every time you think you’re behind, even when they check to you at the end. Look for the most ideal hands and spots to bluff, and that’s when you go for it.

Don't like it at all. What are you supposed to have? You don't represent anything. It just looks like you're making a thin value bet with like TT, so you're going to get called by V1's QQ.

I think the hand is played fine if you check behind river. You're never going to win, but you got a lot of cheap cards. You could raise turn and try to bluff like that but I'm not sure I'm a fan.

Would you have played T9s, or any other strong holding, the same way thru the turn ?

If you were going to bluff, raising turn was the time to do it. As played to the river your line makes no sense and you didn't bet anywhere near enough for this to work.

Also, fold pre both times to a 70bb stack. You're not even getting 20:1 implied.

I don't hate the initial call, though it's very marginal (less than 20x behind). As long as you can steal sometimes post, it's probably slightly profitable. I don't think 20x is nearly enough if you're playing make-a-hand.

Calling the raise is terrible. I mean really bad. Your IO are gone like last night's fantasy and you're going to have a very difficult time stealing with SPR like 2.

Flop check is good. Gotta love the free card when we're way behind.

Turn call is bad. Yeah, outs, etc. But the straight is a one card. 2P puts 4 straight out there. Diamond outs are tainted. We might be dead already.

However, if you're right that V's don't have the flush, you should be jamming this all day long. You'll often get folds and are reasonably likely to actually be ahead of a stiff Ad (though note that we're not giving V's the odds to draw for it in any case).

AP, quietly give up on the river. A shove looks really weird -- why didn't you raise the turn if you've got such a great hand? The 3s isn't scaring anyone or changing anyone's opinion of which hands are best.

But ship that turn, baby.

The river bet makes no sense. You need 2 pair + to make that bet. The K on the river can hardly ever help your hand so you are repping that you had 2 pair + on the turn and just flatted when the board got super duper wet.

WTF?

Your hand looks like missed diamonds.


And why can't you have the best hand at showdown? In these multiway pots where no one wants to make a small valuebet on the river, one pair is going to win the hand a large majority of the time.

If one of your V's spikes a K on the river, they are always going to call that bet, so just check it back.

If you were going to rep a turned flush, or a turned straight on the river, you should have raised the turn, even if it was just a min raise, if you think V did not have the flush. The 3c on the river changes nothing, since all the straights and flushes made it on the turn... To me, your line looks just like what you have... a pair of 8s and V looks like a weak K... I am guessing he calls with a K9 or K5, and he bet the turn with the open ended...