My point is that when you have the best hand you should be trying to take a line that maximizes the amount of chips you get in the middle and that is best accomplished in this spot by taking a bet bet bet line. If we raise turn or river we are allowing our opponent an easy exit from the hand even if they have top pair. If we don't raise turn then we are unlikely to get a whole lot of value in this hand after checking the flop.

Also, keep in mind that the more money an opponent puts into a hand on early streets the less likely he/she is to fold subsequent streets. A lot of villains will call 3 streets with a pocket pair even if a scare card hits the river. Also, by betting the flop that gives our opponents an additional opportunity to make a major mistake (which could happen because our flop bet will look FOS).

problem is that these tight players are still not probably paying off that much with 2nd best when they improve and you put yourself in a RIO situation where they hit their pocket pair or slowplay a better 9 and then you face a lot of action in a situation where your hand is under-repped.

perhaps the adjustment to make is to up the aggression against them so that they're less inclined to fold spots like this to your button bet that reps nothing.

good luck.

+1

I'd bet $20-$25 here. That is what I'd bet if I had TJs, 67s etc. If they fold, just pretend in your head like you had nothing and ensure that when you do call a raise from the button with suited connectors and the flop checks to you on a junky board you bet around half pot to take it down.

Bet, you get floated a lot from pairs and overs. More than likely you will get a call.

Tight able that is only opening with top pair or better? Easy check. At most were getting two streets of value and this board helped no one but us. Need to give Vs a chance to catchup or spazz out when they make two pair.

My default in this spot would be to bet around 1/2 Potish to get called by non believing pps. Check turn and bet river when checked to.

Only occasionally I will check flop and some other part of the time ill do goofy **** like bet 10.

Have any of you ever bet tiny tiny tiny like 5-10-20 and been called by crap on 3 streets by 2 players to win a $150 pot?

Just sayin if they'll call $10 bet 10.

The idea of waiting for them to catch a draw is meh. I mean most players wont commit much on a bd draw with one card to come.

I'm having a hard time believing the PFR is such a nit that they only bet top pair or will chk fold flops but has raised from MP with a hand they won't call one bet with on this board a lot of the time.

78 is NOT a hand that you want to be playing a big pot with against tight players. You are just blindly trying to shove chips into the middle without thinking about your opponent's ranges, and forgetting an important thing about playing deep - it is MUCH harder for people to stack off with marginal hands. I think you realized this too in your previou post but somehow it wasnt reflected in the rest of your response - which is, people arent going to get it in without a boat here, and are UNlikely to play a big pot with just one pair.

So you see why your logic doesnt make sense? On one hand you are saying, we wont play a big pot against one-pair type hands unless they boat up, yet on the other hand you are also saying, but lets play this hand so aggressively and maximize our win.

The latter will blow a lot of marginal hands out of the pot most of the times, and the few times cost you your stack when they did hit something.

Also, most of your logic above is dependant on your opponents thinking you are "FOS" and call you down, but really, how likely is that without prior history and given how tight passive the table is?

Check if the table is tight. If you had floaters in the hand you might want to bet but the table you described doesn't fit the description. Bet turn and river, fold to river shove if someone else came along with A 9.

No, I don't see any content/logic in your post at all.

You think it's MUBS to think someone can improve to a better hand.

But at the same time you think people will be likely to put money into the pot later if they improve to a worse hand.

And to make your "point" you use ridiculous hyperbole like "blindly trying to shove chips into the middle".

And of course you accuse other people of not thinking about ranges without having posted any range yourself.

A question for you: Every time you suggest betting is the correct option in any thread, would you like it someone said you were blindly trying to shove chips into the middle without thinking of ranges?

grunch:

3 things:

1. I'm probably not getting 3 streets of value
2. I'm probably not going to be raising a bet on most turns once the 2 players checked the flop.
3. We are unlikely to be able to play for stacks unless an A or K comes on the turn and one of our Vs has AK.

Given this, I like checking back the flop with the intention of just calling most bets on the turn and betting 2/3 pot if checked to. Depending on runouts, I would plan to call-down turn and river to keep Vs range wide and let him/her bluff, and bet 2/3 pot on turn and full pot on river if anyone check/calls turn.

This line could change depending on what happens on the turn. For instance, if an A fell, and one of the Vs made a small bet, I'd probably raise for value and be comfortable stacking off. If the turn is a 6 or something, and one of the villains made a strong bet, I am probably just calling down for the reasons stated above, though I may consiuder a small value raise on the river depending on the runout and the villain's sizing.



anyway, uhh /ramble, I think this hand plays a lot easier on future streets if we check back the flop.

Play weaker (either by not barreling 3 streets or bet sizing accordingly) = keep more hands in their call range. Why did i need to explain that concept?

The first two things you said are not mutually exclusive. I don't see how that's not logical for me to state both at the same time.

Your last sentence is too lol for me bother to reply. Although a word of advice, you probably shouldn't take strat responses so personally.

I'm checking back flop as well. Just think it makes sense given table dynamic and position. Obv betting / raising turn and river as well
Nh

I'd value bet flop, plan to check back most turns, and try to get a medium sized pot to show down.

For those who say check back, saying PP's are only giving any action if they boat up, then what's the benefit of checking the flop? If they're not giving action on any streets without a boat then we might as well cut off their equity right here. A $20ish bet I believe has a chance to get floated a lot by overs and some PPs...we can check most turns for pot control and to induce river value bets by V's that made top pair or something.

How'd the hand play out?

Havax, what stakes are all your threads? (I never see it posted, I'm assuming 1/2 NL?)