Effective stacks are $300

V is a MAWG that just doubled up after he 3bet an MP $10 open to $25 OTB and stacked him for $120ish on a 10 hi flop with QQ vs JJ. He is talkative and seems pretty ABC.

Hero is quiet and hasn't played a hand in the 30 mins V has been at the table.

Hand...

Folds to V on BTN who raises to $6, Hero in BB 3bets to $22, V tanks for 8 seconds and calls

Flop ($45): Q44r
Hero bets $26, V calls

Turn ($97): 5r
Hero ??

I guess V has a lot of Qx/mid pps in his range here against which 88 is never doing well. I usually just give up in these spots but as an experiment to double barrel, can we bomb the turn?

The 5 doesn't help us get him off his better pocket pairs or Qx so it's merely the additional bet that would put pressure on him. We are repping AA KK AK a lot. I don't expect him to fold AQ but if we want to barrel him off 99 TT a solid bet might do it. We have the best hand here some of the time as well.

All in all not a spot I'd choose but if we elect to 3! 88 and give up after our flop bet is called I think we'd be better off not 3betting 88 in the first place.

Yeah, I hate 3! against an ABC player here, especially given his betting history as it seems we get to see cards decently cheaply with him, and overall the hand will be easy to play against him.

As played you have to bet the turn; really tough for him to continue with anything but AQ KQ and a sneaky AA/KK here.

Thoughts on c/c on the turn and eval river?

In my experience this type of stop and go play tends to build credibility against the common MAWG even if it doesn't make sense in terms of what type of hands we would do this w. I think that the type of hands he will fold are going to played best against this type of line. I like c/c and then fire big otr, also Vil never has a 4 so raising a small bet on anything but an A or Q river seems advisable against most Vils of this type as long as we have decent credibility.

^ I disagree. If we check the turn, V puts us on AK and calls river comfortably.

It Shouldn't every 5 card hand possible besides Q4 be in our range here and very well be played as a check ott?

Why are we 3! pre? Why are we turning a hand with calling value into a bluff if we are just going to rep AA/KK on the flop? We could do that with 72 since it blocks the same combo of hands as 88 which is nothing.

This was poorly played in my opinion and we are going to have a hard time getting V off his likely JJ-99 hand (or sneaky AA/KK). He's not folding the overpair part of his range meaning you are going to have to run a costly three street bluff/river shove to target the weaker part of his range.

Your flop bet sizing is also weird after 3! pre to $22 now you are only betting $26 (~1/2 PSB)? Similar sizing would be $55 on the turn setting up a river pot of $210 with $200 behind. Shoving that all in would make no sense after the way you played the hand.

If you want to rep AA/KK you need to size your flop and turn bets easier setting up a "value" river shove. The more I look at this hand the more I hate it. If I am V I am calling you down with my entire range.

The 1/2 pot bet seems pretty standard on a paired, 1 high card flop in a 3-bet pot. Any timing tells on the flop call? What do you think he's thinking about in the 8 seconds preflop - maybe computing implied odds? OOP, I also agree that calling >> 3betting pre.

OTT: If he's ABC, I think we can expect him to bet (or call with) a better hand and check (or fold) a worse hand. So let's check it, and maybe there's a chance for value on the river.

How would you be playing AK or JJ here?

I only ask because it occurs to me that against this play type, who opened light and can't really crush the flop often I think it might be best if a large portion of our lines w ATC here focus purely on making it as difficult as possible for him (because his range is pretty geared imo to middling strength hands that HE won't be able to face pressure against) to reach showdown.

Sure we take a different line against you. You're competent. Do we think this Vil is?

This.

Just wanted to add that if you're one and done with your bluffs OP you'd be pretty easy to play against if some one is paying attention.

why would you bomb the turn when you could have bombed the flop?


bet 45, 50 on the flop and be done with the hand. if he calls, your done, but 80% of the time he is going to fold to an overbet.

bombing the turn makes it look specifically like you have QQ or air.

^
Flop is the lightest peeled street, double/triple barrels are very effective vs players that will never expect you to have multi street aggression with air or anything you're turning into a bluff thus vs certain profile is extremely effective and profitable.
It does take practice, comfort level with BR correct profiling and sizing.

Not a big fan of the 3-bet pre.

As played, I'm on board with merging our hand into a bluff. $60 OTT looks good.

Because the flop is bone dry and a 1/2 pot cbet is standard with ATC. As someone above pointed, Vs will peel flop with Qx/mid pps a lot no matter what the sizing, so the idea is to go small at first (giving ourselves a cheap shot at winning the pot outright) and if that fails, go big OTT to rep AA-QQ.

If you don't bet the turn we might have a hard time winning. It's possible V floated or has something like 66, 77, TT, maybe even JJ. Other than those Q's make up his range. 24 combos vs maybe 18 combos of like AQ or KQ...it's possible other Q's could be in his range but I would say the double barrel works more than it doesn't. If V calls we are done unless we hit an 8.