1-3 NLHE

Hero (650): LAG/TAG, playing tighter at start of session, mixing it up in a few spots...like this one
V (950): Sitting at the table awhile now, friendly with HERO, know each other pretty well and styles of play

PF: Two limpers in MP, V limps CO, Hero in BB makes it 17 total with Q8 (messed up the title was typing another post lol). One limper in MP calls, one folds and V calls.

Flop (55): 883.

Hero leads for 35, MP folds, V calls

Turn (125): 5.

Hero leads for 125, and V moves Hero in for $475 more. Hero???

I'm assuming this is 1/2. By Q8ss do you mean Q 8 or Q8 off suit?

Edit your OP to include this info and I'll give you feedback.

edited

Snap call. Im also making it around 25 pre if we are trying to squeeze.

Pre is gross but you probably know that.

Turn, what sort of range do you give V? Does he make plays at you like this? Would he do this with 98, 87, T8, other spade draws, etc?

Pre = gross, you are spot on on that and yes I know but I am a dumb arse PF, not going to lie...

Turn = I expect him to have a solid hand here actually more often than not, but only when he truly ranges me on a big hand. He knows that once I get above 200BBs I am often three barreling when I am OOP and typically depending on my bet sizing of my turn bets I have pretty much nailed the flop and am not going to be folding.

Should have bet larger PF probably too, or just called...probably don't get any stacks in either though...

Your hand is too well disguised right now to ever fold. Not to mention the back door flush draw. I doubt he is ever really putting you on an 8 here plus there are so many worse 8 he could be doing this with trying to get value from the over pair he probably thinks you have. This is a snap call IMO I am never folding here. Boats are the absolute top of his range here.

Tough putting you on trip 8 if we're in V's shoes. Has V made this type of play before? Most of my slightly over shoves ott are when I think my V has FE and I have a really good draw and I'm trying to get him to fold. You think he'd do this with spades? Since you have two that really reduces how many combos he can have. I'd still saying he's doing this with the nfd though.

Is this really true given the fact that V knows OP and his style of play? It sounds like there should be some 8x in our range. Plenty of other things in range, too, but I think the rationale for wanting to call is off.

The case for calling is something to the effect of "V knows we can be FOS here and he wants to take the pot from us" or "V will do this with weaker value hands like weaker 8x or AA-99." keep in mind big pairs should be very unlikely given the limp pre. It would be helpful if the OP clarified the range of V after preflop since he seems to know him pretty well.

I think he's solid here a fair amount overall simply because most players aren't getting 200 bb in light that often. Don't forget he limp/called pre which smells of draw-y hands (in their mind) - stuff like pocket pairs, suited connectors, etc. Board has hit 33, 55, and 8x now.

Thanks for editing.

Preflop: Knock the table. By the low standards of random BB hands, Q8s has pretty decent value. If you're going to bluff here it's better to do it with total trash. Q8s can catch a fair number of good flops, hands like Q2o can't. Raising with Q8s wastes the good flops you catch, raising Q2o wastes nothing.

Of course, if your read is that your opponents will fold then you should bump it up regardless of your hand, but that doesn't seem to be the case when the guy in position in the hand knows you're capable of making moves here.

Flop: As played preflop, I like this bet.

Turn: I like betting, but I'd definitely bet less. Going full pot on the turn raises a red flag imo. If you're behind you are going to get it all in regardless of what you bet, but full pot may scare away some pretty strong hands that you beat. More importantly, betting closer to half pot may be misinterpreted as weakness and could trick your opponent into calling with the least of his holdings and perhaps even making a play at you.

As played, call the shove. You're behind to boats and A8, K8. You're ahead of all other trips, 2 pair hands, semi-bluffs, and total bluffs. There are more hands in the latter category than in the former, plus you are being given a price on your call. Even if you're behind you still have a lot of outs. Even the nightmare of being up against threes full leaves you with a respectable 7 outs.

Just my opinion...

What two pair hands and semi bluffs does V have? There were no draws on the flop. And two pair here means he's going nuts for 200 bb.

Give him a more realistic range here please. This is not at all an easy call.

Imo 2 pair is definitely in CO's range. Given what CO knows about OP, CO has to figure TT, 99,77,66 are ahead and he could conceivably limp/call pre with all those hands. From his point of view, even if OP has something like JJ OP can't call a turn raise and CO may not want to risk a free card killing him in a big pot. Yeah, the raise is big, but OP has made the pot so big on the turn what other raise size does he have? I'm not claiming this is the optimal way for CO to play these hands, but I do think there's a greater than trivial chance this scenario could play out.

As for semi-bluffs, yes, the flop is dry. So dry that I expect CO to float it a lot, and the turn makes this board wet.

These scenarios, combined with naked bluffs, and the more likely J8, T8, 98, 87, 86 are all imo conceivable holdings. Also keep in mind that OP is getting laid a price and his hand has outs, so even if I'm overestimating CO's range and he's only getting it in with 99+ OP is correct to call. Somebody can pokerstove this if they don't trust my intuition.

Just my opinion...

What do you mean by LAG/TAG? That makes no sense to me. Raising your bb to $17 with Q8 is a total spew.

You didn't give much info on villain...other than you said you know his playing style well. So, is he a tight player? maniac? Would he ever raise that turn with a draw? Weaker 8?

As played, this is really tough to get away from because even if V has A8 or K8 we have outs to a flush or boat. This is close but we probably have to make a crying call.

Don't post results in your original post.

I would just see a flop preflop. With 3 limpers already in the pot, there's a very good chance we won't be able to narrow the field. Plus we'll be OOP in a bloated pot and deepstacked, with a pretty meh and possibly high RIO hand; I'd rather keep the pot small in this situation. I would much rather wait until we have position before getting a little out of hand / build a big pot.

The SPR is 12ish on the flop and we have a well disguised hand. I think we have to make up our mind right off the bat whether we feel committed for stacks or not. I think I do feel committed and if I've run into a better hand (such as 33 or A8) then I think I'm chalking it up to a cooler. Since I've decided I want to play for stacks, I would simply ~pot the first two streets so I could shove the river.

As played, I would continue thru with my commitment plan on the turn. I actually feel fairly fistpumpy here as I doubt a fullhouse in position would ship the turn, plus we are ahead of a lot of 8x hands and no draws have come in.

Gmakingaplan,andstickingwithitG