Hi all,

Thanks for reading this.

This hand is a really tricky one for me cos I just started playing Live home games and if i played it online, I would already have an automated decision for this hand, but because it's my third time playing Live today, I guess the table talk about me being too tight plus my disillusioned understanding of how "fast" Live poker is as compared to online poker caused me to somehow misplayed this hand.

Hero(CO) : KQo

UTG straddles, UTG1, MP, MP1 CALLS.

HERO RERAISES TO 8x.

BUTTON(LOOSE AND OVERLY AGGRESSIVE WITH GARBAGE)
: MIN RAISES TO 12bb.

UTG, UTG1, MP, MP1, HERO(CO) CALLS.

POT: 84bb

3c3sQc/s

All checks and Hero cbetted slightly more then half pot. 44bb+ -

UTG CALLS.

TURN: Ac

POT: 172bb +-

HERO BETS AGAIN ALL IN 70bb+ - .

V CALLS.

What do you think of Hero's play here and why? What range would you put V on?

Alittle info on the main players in this hand.

UTG(TILTED AND ALSO LOOSE AND OVERLY AGGRESSIVE WITH MEDIOCRE HANDS, 4 BETTING ALL IN WITH 77p OTF, RELOADED A COUPLE OF TIMES)

HERO(THIRD TIME PLAYING LIVE, HAVE A COUPLE OF HANDS AGAINST THIS V WHO IS SLIGHTLY TILTED. HERO IS WEAK TIGHT IF WE CONSIDER THE AMOUNT OF HANDS HE PLAYS WITHIN SUCH SMALL VOLUME SAMPLE, AND HERO IS CARD DEAD FOR ALMOST THE WHOLE SESSION)

With 114 Bb behind and a 68 Bb pot for grabs, a tight image, and weak action in front of you, I'm shoving pre flop. The only one who can call you is button and he's folding most of his range. The times when he does call, you are getting 2.5:1 on your money.

As played the hand pretty much plays itself. Id range villain as wide as Q10 through 3x, there really has been nothing to define his hand other than the flop bet which shows he has a piece.

I would 4-bet shove pre or fold. If you think that the button is FOS, then jam, otherwise I would just fold. Hero has played very few hands, and now he's getting 3-bet? Unless the aggro lag has been doing this a lot, then he probably has you dominated.

Hi Jamiton(theriver) and BackDoorFlush!

Thank you for your kind replies!

I am not too sure myself about shoving it in pre. One of the reason is I am sitting on a healthy stack myself.

secondly, the UTG Lagtard, he is on tilt and would call me with just about anything. I mean, this is a good thing. But I am not not fond of coin flips.

And also, to me, KQo is nothing much. The button who 3betted minraise me, I don't give him much credit for his range, cos I have seen him blowing away chips with complete garbage and he 4betted me a few times, while I tried to steal OTB/LP. Of course I folded, not going to try to be funny with garbage/mediocre hands. LOL

The reason I cbetted was because I am holding onto a value hand, although its not the nuts. But I see that no one will be hitting it hard most of the time. And since UTG wh has history with me called, I'm not folding here with Q pair, and what's more, the A fell on the flop, AX / suited connectors / and Q3o. Yes, V's range. Yes.

There are more than 80 bb in the pot when you are closing action pre. If you shove, even knowing you'll get called by one player with a wide range that you're flipping against, the shove wins you 40bb on average. It would be hard to argue that calling as you did will be worth 40bb.

I don't want to discount your live reads, because they are important, but I have to disagree with the likely outcome of a shove. I see that you are an online player getting acclimated to live play - I only play online very rarely but play live about 25 hours per week and have been doing so for a little over two years now.

One of the biggest leaks for live players is that they love to see a flop. They also assume everyone else does which leads to lots of horrendous over calls. In this spot you are set up perfectly for a squeeze and I can tell you that in my experience our fold equity is likely around 75%, which makes this a no brainer. If your live read on utg is spot on and he's calling a shove with ATC, so be it. You have 40-60% equity most of the time and are getting 2.5:1 on your money. If you can't get behind those odds you will never have success in live poker. Lots of stupid people make stupid plays, but that's how we make money, not because we wait for 80/20 equity leads to make a move.

Hi Suited Fours and Jamitontheriver

Thanks for your replies, totally appreciate it

The way i played poker online is rather black and white and so, I seldom use the pot odds and equity. Cos I seldom call and when I bet, I usually go with my instincts and the dynamics I feel that is there.

I did try to learn and memorise the pot odds and equity before and knows the simple ones like, OESD - 32% and FLUSH Draw - 36% and stuff but cos I seldom use it, I'll need some time to digest it all. I'll reply once I understand it and with further questions to ask.

Thanks!!!

First Grunch:

Against a player such as the one you've described, I would assume that their range is pretty much ATC, though I've often found that the REALLY inexperienced live players fall in love with Ax hands, so there might be a bit of that in there as well. Either way, personally, I don't see playing this hand much differently than you did though I might suggest putting more in on the flop if he is just going to call you anyway (and then, I'd assume, you have a greater chance of getting your money in good). It would also make the odds less favorable for any flush draws that may be hanging on.

Anyway - sorry if this is all wrong - I am learning as well.

I had a few comments about this hand. 1) I think your open was too small. With a straddle (to 2bb I'm assuming) you raised 3 callers to 8bb. I'd be raising to ~15bb optimally. (I understand home games sometimes have different dynamics though where people don't raise as much preflop etc.) But the action in this game confirms this: You got 3! and like five people cold called the three bet. This table is INCREDIBLY loose, and we want to try to get to this flop with fewer people in it.

As played, you're in a really tough spot with ~150bb and an SPR of 2. I think ripping all in preflop is too much here, especially if people aren't folding hands like A7o. The comment about people folding 75% doesn't seem to be the case in this home game. I'm probably calling and seeing a flop.

On this flop when checked to, I think I'm going to actually check. Absolutely 0 worse hands are folding. (AQ, KK+, or a 3 are never folding ever) and we have very little to protect against. I think I'm going to check for deception, but never fold. If button c-bets, I'm CRAI. If it checks around, I'm betting all turns except the A.



Also on the turn I hate your shove. Your K kicker doesn't play, so you're chopping with all Q, and JJ and worse should be folding. I also feel lilke this guy is capable of having Ax float on the flop and you're also drawing to 5%.

Ah I still don't quite get it haha, excuse me

You mean KQo against what hand is roughly about 2.5 to 1?

Yeah, I agree man, they love to see a flop, even NL2 fishes knows how to fold in difficult spots unless they are tilted badly. But these folks in Live poker isn't even tilting and they are already making loose calls here and there when peeps 3bet, 4bet and do all kinds of raises.

4bet shove for fold equity? I felt a little awkward calling OOP, knowing that those fishes are going to follow suit too and help create a gigantic pot.

And yeah, the Button has been doing it quite abit of min raising and going to show down with crappy garbage hands.

And UTG, has been too loose for his life too, calling off a reraise OTF with complete air.

Hi outatime!

Don't you feel that the 8bb raise size to be weird? LOL

I actually think I raised it not optimally. When I play online, I would raise it to 8bb + a additional bb or two for each limpers in the pot. But I think it was too overwhelming for me, I didn't play it well.

Hi jglman91!

Yeah!! Thanks for pointing that out, the raise size is indeed weirddddd. These players love to see a flop even when they get cold 4betted. Jesus. How would you justify raising them up to 15bb? two additional bb to each limpers on top of the original raise size?

I am a little split between 4betting all in currently, because, even though button who min raised me is not going to be able to call my overbet all in here, but I can't say so for V in UTG who has something against me, I would assume UTG is going to call with ranges something along, AXo+, 66+ KQo/s+(prolly). Cos he was too aggressive, he shoved in the river after calling my OESD double barrel, which the board already has a complete straight made.

In another hand though, V slowplayed me with a better hand, if I didn't remember it wrongly, it was KK, against a TP type hand.

And also, regarding CRAI if button cbets, why do you think CRAI is the best move here? Let's assume the pot is 84bb and everyone checks, Button cbets 44bb, everyone folds to Hero in CO, and hero jams it in 120bb + - to a pot of 128bb, V only needs to call a 76bb additional which averages about 2 to 1. So is this fine?

haha excuse me for silly questions, just wanna know the reasoning behind it

I suppose it might be a little bit off - perhaps raise a bit more PF, but I don't think it was a catastrophic error (but again, I am just learning these things myself).

Given this information, I'm 4-bet shoving pre-flop. It's what is called a 'combo' bet. We are looking to generate fold equity, we are looking to protect our equity (we might have the best hand), and we need the button to stop screwing with us by min 3-betting trash hands.

I see what you meant now. Even if Button or anyone calls, they can't be showing anything good unless if they are slowplaying, which is the most dumb move when there are so many people in the pot. And if the blinds shows up anything like a big pocket pair, it's just a bad beat?

And if any limpers or blinds or even the Button calls and shows up with AXo, we still get 40% to win the hand, and we put V in a difficult spot cos we shown aggression which puts them in it. And a call here is definitely not a profitable play, right? ^^

I didn't really think about this before