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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 05-14-2017, 09:27 AM   #1
Chicagodude
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8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

1/2 NWI No Limit
I just sat down. This is my 3rd hand. Never seen villain before.
I have 88 in the small blind.
UTG+1 opens pot for $10.
3 callers. I call in the small blind, 4 fold.
$40 pot
FlOP 372
I check. He bets $10 into a $40 pot and 2 folds. I call. Should I have reraised $30 here?
Turn 3 POT $60
I bet $30 because I think he has AK (based on the 10 buck flop bet) and has missed so far. He calls.
River 6
I check. He bets $30. Hero........
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:37 AM   #2
Garick
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

Some info on V would help, but I snap it off. He usually has a medium PP here and is just convinced that you don't have a three. You don't beat many PPs, but you only need to be good 17% of the time to make a profit. I don't love turning this in to a bluff without more info on V, because LLSNL Vs are just so sticky on paired boards.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:59 AM   #3
Rhombo
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

These spots have been testing my patience recently where you get triple barreled, but also get an amazing price to call each step of the way. My default is that an unknown is raising really tight and limping most hands in 1/2, especially from UTG+1 so I fold turn (provided he bets when we check). Maybe call if it's a young kid.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #4
Chicagodude
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

yeah i thought i was good here, it turned out he had JJ but the 10 buck bet on the flop totally confused me for the rest of the hand. I knew 0 about him.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:31 AM   #5
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

yeah it turned out you were right i should have folded turn no doubt
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #6
QuadJ
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

Absent any other information call river just because it's so small.

With a better read on villain you might be able to fold, raise or call at any point in this hand. Particularly when he leads small on the flop into a multiway pot anything might be right with your hand. If he will lead small with air to see what happens then raising is good. If he will lead small and get sticky with over pairs then fold. If he will lead small with anything but won't fold big pairs then calling and seeing what happens on the turn could be best.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:02 PM   #7
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

sound advice, thank you!
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:10 PM   #8
Dank$inatra6
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

I don't see why we are betting the turn. Are you trying to get value out of AK? By betting here we are filtering out hands that we are ahead of such as two overs and only getting called by larger pps. Id prefer a x/c or x/f
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:33 AM   #9
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

why would you bet $30 if you think he has AK? Like, how do you just suddenly put him on AK after that flop cbet/call? I mean if you thought he had AK then the flop was the place to x/r. But you didnt, you called, so we have no more information about this hand than before. If you're calling the flop to let him bluff then just let him bluff the turn again, because you know he might not actually be bluffing.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:53 AM   #10
johnny_on_the_spot
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8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

What exactly does leading turn accomplish?
It denies some equity to overcards, but you're never getting better (99+) to fold and it's tough to get worse to call often. I probably check/call turn and evaluate rivers

AP OTR, 30 into 120 is a tough price to fold to but it's disconcerting that he has position and is opening up the betting again. Worse hands are going to check back here very often. We need V to be able to turn Ax/KQ type hands into bluffs. I'm not super confident in that happening at 1/2
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:16 AM   #11
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

As someone who is transitioning from online to live, I am struggling with the tiny flop bets, usually donk bets, and what they mean. Sometimes, it's just pot control...they don't want to get pots into the $100 range. Sometimes they are just clueless about betsizing. Sometimes they are pure bluffs (bad ones), who again, don't want to put too much into the pot. Some will do it with their flush or straight draws (building the pot).

However, when some standard LL player triple-barrels w/o a draw hitting, even at a stupid size, they typically have something. Here, he could have 2x, 44, 55, 6x, 7x, 88+. Against that range, you are actually doing quite well and should call. However, if you figure out he only donks w/ 88+, you are dead.

I'd probably call in the given hand above, but I am trying to figure out where on the spectrum these horrific small flop bettors are:

1) good hand (top pr, over pr, combo draw), but they always bet small (raise if you think you can beat it)
2) mediocre hand (2nd/3rd pr) that they don't want to bet bigger (raisey daisy)
3) flush/str8 draws where they want to get something in the pot in case they hit (raise these big)
4) pure bluff, but again small, don't want to risk too much if it doesn't work - raise if you got a decent read it might be a bluff, esp. if you think you have equity, no harm in folding either for a small pot

Anyway, these small flop bets drive me crazy so I'm still working on what they mean from person to person and the best strategy for them.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:34 PM   #12
YzRse
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

An interesting concept for this type of hand is range merging. I am not saying you should do it in this case and absolutely you should not do it without good knowledge about your villain.
On very tight opponents (MUBSY) as well as on the very loose passive (calling stations) you can overbet c/r here with hands like 77, 88, 99. The result you'd be looking for is that the tight opponent might fold TT, JJ type hands on a paired low flop vs BB range and your cs might call with hands like AK and AQ. You have to be aware of stack sizes and never do it if opponent is committed to the pot.

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Old 05-15-2017, 04:04 PM   #13
Avaritia
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Re: 8/8 Small Blind NL 1/2

You can actually lead flop. But most of the time just x/c flop , x/f turn
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