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77 OOP vs solid TAG 77 OOP vs solid TAG

12-24-2014 , 09:52 PM
Hi guys played an interesting hand at a 2/5 NL table and would like some feedback on the way I approached the hand.

Starting stacks:

Hero: $500
Villain: $2000

Villain UTG+1 opens to $25. MP1, MP2, the CO and Hero in the BB calls holding 7 7.

The flop comes: 4 8 4 $127 in pot.

Villain bets $55. It's folded to Hero in the BB who calls.

The turn brings a 4 $237 in pot

It goes check check.

The river brings a 6

Hero???

Villain is a solid TAG who knows that paired boards rarely hit opponents' ranges so c-betting them even multi-way is profitable. With that being said, villain's range is still fairly wide and I'm ahead a high percentage of the time so I opted to call and evaluate the turn which brings another 4. At this point, villain's check indicates either KK+ or non paired hands since I believe that villain would bet 99-QQ to protect against an over card to his pair. With that being said, do you go for a thin value bet like $100 or check call a decent sized river bet from villain?

Thanks for the feedback guys!
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 09:54 PM
X/c. Maybe he will fire a river bet with Ax. Betting we never get called by worse.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:04 PM
I prefer to go for thin value. He might think we have a busted FD and call with Ax. Doubt he'll try bluffing this runout if we check.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:14 PM
I rather make a blocker bet/fold round a hundred or so, so we can choose the bet size instead of him potting or overbetting it with AK or some other bull **** hand making us think twice about calling
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:31 PM
IMO pretty obvious he has two over cards...PF raise in EP, c-bets just under half pot, immediate check back OTT...at this point anywhere from $80-100 is the sweetspot...if you think he will call more with A-high type hands then by all means bet more. I probably would be willing to get it in if V goes crazy based on how things have gone down. V is betting 99+ 100% of the time and probably 8x OTT. He could have Ax of diamonds also.

OTF... x/r might be a better play with your pocket 7s.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
X/c. Maybe he will fire a river bet with Ax. Betting we never get called by worse.
I am not a fan of check calling here just because he might make a pot sized bet and put me to a tough decision so I prefer controlling the betting size here.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
I rather make a blocker bet/fold round a hundred or so, so we can choose the bet size instead of him potting or overbetting it with AK or some other bull **** hand making us think twice about calling
I completely agree with this.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 10:52 PM
b/f good read
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-24-2014 , 11:17 PM
very interesting, hope people can elaborate the b/f line here and some range examples.

my default play here is x/c because I hate being raised in this spot and the check can induce some bluff, his value hands here will normally checks back since he didn't bet the turn.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:00 AM
This is an easy value bet, the board made trips so he is rarely bluffing this river, but he may think his ace high or whatever has showdown value and call you thinking you might have missed diamonds. He's way more likely to call a bet with worse here than to bet if you check with worse right here. If you check here he just snap checks back everything worse
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
X/c. Maybe he will fire a river bet with Ax. Betting we never get called by worse.
Exactly, this is a perfect time to get another street of value. We will rarely get called by A or K high but they may fire a bullet out of desperation.

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77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
Exactly, this is a perfect time to get another street of value. We will rarely get called by A or K high but they may fire a bullet out of desperation.

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no dude I disagree. A solid tag here with A or K high just insta checks back this river expecting to have showdown value vs whiffed FDs and expecting better to never fold

I would bet something gay like 75 dollars here I think that's best...villain's range here is super weak
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSlick2006
IMO pretty obvious he has two over cards...PF raise in EP, c-bets just under half pot, immediate check back OTT...at this point anywhere from $80-100 is the sweetspot...if you think he will call more with A-high type hands then by all means bet more. I probably would be willing to get it in if V goes crazy based on how things have gone down. V is betting 99+ 100% of the time and probably 8x OTT. He could have Ax of diamonds also.

OTF... x/r might be a better play with your pocket 7s.
Most V's are checking back 8x and medium overpairs on turn and betting river. Betting turn 100% of the time with a medium overpair is probably a mistake unless hero is perceived as a fish that will stack off with 8x or an underpair. If I was V in this spot with TT I'm checking turn and going 3/4 pot or full pot on river. C/r turn accomplishes nothing other than lighting $500 on fire when V has an overpair.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
Exactly, this is a perfect time to get another street of value. We will rarely get called by A or K high but they may fire a bullet out of desperation.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums
Why would a tag fire river with A high and turn his hand into a bluff? His tight range has a lot of showdown value we can value bet.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 12:54 AM
I said b/f for protection, I suck..
Are we ever calling here w 75s pre @ 2/5 loose passive table?
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:06 AM
Hand reading starts pre flop. He raised from early and fired into multiple people. He likely has an overpair or AKdd, AQdd, AJdd, KQdd. Yes he could have AKo, AQo but i doubt he fires river. He has a lot of showdown value and hard to imagine a better hand folding.
I think river is closer to a check fold or a bet fold small (for like 1/3 pot). Probably check fold.

I would fold flop. He fired into 4 people. Even if he has AKo, AQo, KQo here, assuming he's good, he can barrel against you on any A, K, or Q. That's 10 outs for him that will either give him the best hand or bluff you off the best hand. And that's assuming you have the best hand now
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by universalpeace
I said b/f for protection, I suck..
Are we ever calling here w 75s pre @ 2/5 loose passive table?
Getting ~25:1 against PFR and up against 4 people, most people (even decent winning regs) would call pre OOP here. Leak for sure, personally I'd fold pre (or 3bet/fold on occasion) but lots of regs call here
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999

I would fold flop. He fired into 4 people. Even if he has AKo, AQo, KQo here, assuming he's good, he can barrel against you on any A, K, or Q. That's 10 outs for him that will either give him the best hand or bluff you off the best hand. And that's assuming you have the best hand now
Nice. Still consider, this board, his image+ pos(utg)
Is simply awesome even oop imo
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 02:36 PM
yeah fold flop I agree with
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 03:07 PM
Bet/fold if he will call AK

Edit.

Definitely need some history to bet here though. Images and HH can easily sway this hand in any direction.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Most V's are checking back 8x and medium overpairs on turn and betting river. Betting turn 100% of the time with a medium overpair is probably a mistake unless hero is perceived as a fish that will stack off with 8x or an underpair. If I was V in this spot with TT I'm checking turn and going 3/4 pot or full pot on river. C/r turn accomplishes nothing other than lighting $500 on fire when V has an overpair.
X/r was for the flop not turn. If you don't bet your mid overpairs OTT you will miss value from over cards that get stubborn. Of course that's from V's view...with 7s it at most is a call OTT.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 05:42 PM
I'd just fold flop without more specific reads on his game. On the river its close between going for 1/3 pot thin value or check/folding. Depends on your image and his heroing tendencies.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 07:55 PM
Check calling likely shows more profit because we can expect him to bluff a portion of the times. If we bet out it could put us in a sticky spot because our range is capped here at a weak pair or busted flush draws. Not to mention when we bet it is going to be hard to get called by worse.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 09:55 PM
You have a better chance of betting the river and getting called by Ax then checking and hoping for V to bet Ax. It doesn't make sense for V to check an over-pair on the turn. I would bet river for value, if V raises (which doesn't make much sense) I would probably just fold.
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote
12-25-2014 , 10:26 PM
Bomb it. 200 to all in. Maybe it is a bluff, maybe it is value. Maybe it is both
77 OOP vs solid TAG Quote

      
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