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6d7d in 3 bet pot IP 6d7d in 3 bet pot IP

11-28-2018 , 09:30 AM
1-1 game.

Effective stacks $250

MP1 makes it 7, I call on BTN, SB 3 bets to 22, MP1 calls, I call

Flop 982r

SB leads for 35 at ~60 pot after rake. MP1 folds. I call.

Turn Kc is the 2nd club out there. SB checks. I check.

River Js. SB leads for 45 at 130 pot. I fold.

Comments on all streets?
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 11:10 AM
The raise to 22 is too much to call with those stacks. You need to fold at that point.

After that it's OK. You hit the flop well enough to continue. You could raise flop but it's obvious and your draw isn't that good. You could also bet turn but that K is a bad card since a bunch of SB's hands got there. And folding river is obvious, even most bluffs beat you at that point.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 11:55 AM
+1 to QuadJ. Quite hard to represent the K OTT since we aren't calling many if any on the flop.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 12:53 PM
Yes maybe I should fold to the 3 bet pre with these stacks, though calling the extra 15 does meet the 5-10% rule and having position bs two villains feels ok to me on balance

Yep a raise on flop looks a bit obviously like a draw but I think it could be a good play. It should certainly fold out AK etc. Plus it puts Villain to a somewhat difficult decision even if he has an overpair - maybe.

After the hand I thought that betting around half pot on turn could be a good play. Villain later said that my flop call felt very like I was slow playing a set. My turn bet would fold out AQ and maybe a small number of other hands that he could have. I do think I could rep a slow played set with this turn bet. I guess there is a chance he’s checking turn with AK being worried about my possible flopped set, but a b/f line from him looks better than checking with that hand

The 3 bet pre in a 1-1 game is TT+/AK so much of the time that it became a bit murky to me whether I should bet turn trying to fold out TT-QQ.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 01:11 PM
I would often call pre, getting 5-1 in immediate odds on the button. If the 3 bettor only has premiums, I might fold.

The most obvious hand for SB here is probably QQ. Didn't like the king but now thinks he's best and hoping for a crying call. He could have JJ, but he'd have to be capable of targeting the weaker part of your range while holding a set, with this small bet size. I could even see him with AK here and obviously a few bluffs and some random, weirdly played value hands.

Fold is probably right, but you COULD bluff raise the river. It's a weird spot to do so, because you're saying that you have JJ, J8,j9 or a weirdly played flopped set. Maybe KJ that checked the turn for some reason. Also QT, which could be somewhat reasonable. It's not the best story, but not the worst.

But it's 1/1 so V might not think about those things and even if he does, he might correctly think "it's 1/1, this guy's play doesn't have to make sense and river raises always have it."

Probably not the place to pull the trigger on this, but I would consider it based on the player and maybe his body language.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 01:33 PM
Great thinking!

I was holding back on ‘should I bluff raise the river’ for later discussion!

I hadn’t even thought about during play. But a good player on my immediate right asked me after the hand ‘what did you put him on?’

I replied that I hadn’t thought about it as I was just folding my hand.

But in terms of putting him on a hand, to me AK looks the most likely. Maybe QQ seeking very thin value but I really think he checks that. Maybe small chance of KK but that surely bets something on turn.

And if I raise river then what can he have that will call me down? Will be a tough call for him a LOT of the time....
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanvliet
Great thinking!

I was holding back on ‘should I bluff raise the river’ for later discussion!

I hadn’t even thought about during play. But a good player on my immediate right asked me after the hand ‘what did you put him on?’

I replied that I hadn’t thought about it as I was just folding my hand.

But in terms of putting him on a hand, to me AK looks the most likely. Maybe QQ seeking very thin value but I really think he checks that. Maybe small chance of KK but that surely bets something on turn.

And if I raise river then what can he have that will call me down? Will be a tough call for him a LOT of the time....
I am bluffing here alot. Because he is bluffing alot. Make it $140. And sleep well. Knowing he is folding more way more often than 50% of the time.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 02:50 PM
Ok so you didn’t get there. WP imo. Bluffing riv never. Betting turn never. Really, next hand. Anything else is spew.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 02:57 PM
Yeah I think making it 140 wins the pot a decent amount more than 50% of the time so nice move to make I think.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 03:00 PM
The one problem in my story might be that with a flopped set, surely I’d bet turn

But yeah at 1-1 villain will probably just think ‘meh... later action is probably the truth’
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanvliet
Yes maybe I should fold to the 3 bet pre with these stacks, though calling the extra 15 does meet the 5-10% rule and having position bs two villains feels ok to me on balance
This is fine for small PPs, not for small suited connectors.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 03:33 PM
Yes that’s probably a good distinction to make
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
This is fine for small PPs, not for small suited connectors.
Folding pre is leak. Given pot odds, stack size and position.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Folding pre is leak. Given pot odds, stack size and position.
With no reads, I think it's a leak to call the 3-bet, since we are going to the flop 3-ways, with an SPR of 4, with 7 high.

I think both stack sizes and pot odds actually favor folding. Position is less important here, given the low SPR.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
This is fine for small PPs, not for small suited connectors.
+100. Pf is an easy fold after the 3 bet.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
With no reads, I think it's a leak to call the 3-bet, since we are going to the flop 3-ways, with an SPR of 4, with 7 high.

I think both stack sizes and pot odds actually favor folding. Position is less important here, given the low SPR.
Need 22% equity to justify call. We have that vs AA. In position where we can fairly easily realize our equity.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
With no reads, I think it's a leak to call the 3-bet, since we are going to the flop 3-ways, with an SPR of 4, with 7 high.

I think both stack sizes and pot odds actually favor folding. Position is less important here, given the low SPR.
It’s a leak to fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
+100. Pf is an easy fold after the 3 bet.
Too deep to fold.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 08:57 PM
Folding this seems crazy to me
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 09:56 PM
If we do stuff like bluff raise this river, just once in a while, the call pf is fine. If we only want to make 2p plus and stack over pairs maybe not.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-28-2018 , 10:46 PM
I missed it was a squeeze, yeah I am coming along preflop. It's kind of close but we have the button in a bloated pot.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-29-2018 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
+100. Pf is an easy fold after the 3 bet.
I don't mind calling the 7, but I agree to folding to the 3 bet. You save yourself money in the long run.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-29-2018 , 12:04 AM
Villain showed AQ after I folded. So if we want to be results-oriented we could say the river bluff raise would have been good 6d7d in 3 bet pot IP
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-29-2018 , 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Need 22% equity to justify call. We have that vs AA. In position where we can fairly easily realize our equity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
It’s a leak to fold.



Too deep to fold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millnoc
Folding this seems crazy to me
Just how frequently do you think you hit a flop with 2 pair+?

Most of your equity is in hitting a draw on the flop. Now if you play in a room where everyone will let you draw for free to the river and then pay you off when you do hit, then sure. I'm not lucky enough to play in those games. In the games I play, somebody is going to bet more than 1/4 pot to see the turn.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-29-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Just how frequently do you think you hit a flop with 2 pair+?

Most of your equity is in hitting a draw on the flop. Now if you play in a room where everyone will let you draw for free to the river and then pay you off when you do hit, then sure. I'm not lucky enough to play in those games. In the games I play, somebody is going to bet more than 1/4 pot to see the turn.
Against a range of QQ+ And AK we are ahead 16% of time after flop. Worst case scenario we are extracting 1 bet postflop.

Games I play in. People play 3 bet pots awfully.

I assume you would advocate a call with 66?
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote
11-29-2018 , 11:50 AM
For guys folding to 3 bet. What hands are we defending?

Because this hand is fairly high in my defense range.

Are you taking into account fact you are giving away $7 with large majority of your range 5% of the time?

That is assuming a super tight 3 bet range.

If you have more aggro player in blinds. You are likely folding 10% or more.
6d7d in 3 bet pot IP Quote

      
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