Table Dynamics - 6 handed 1/2 in a NH poker room. 1st table opened in the room. Table has been running for about 1 hour.

Out of the 6th players H has played with 3 Vs (2 Older White Males who are TAG) 1 MAWG who is a thinking player but leans towards LAG, 1 MAWW who is a dealer but seems to be the worst player in the game, and then 1 V who H has played the least amount with who seems to just be 'bad' (calling too lose, limping too much, showing hands throughout)

Hero started the session with 200 has gotten it up to about 240 in the hour or so. All V's in the hand cover H
OTTH -

Both TAGs are the blinds
Dealer V folds
LAG v raises to 7 (mainly been his opening amount, has open raised regardless of position about 2-3 times per orbit).
'Bad' V calls in CO
I call in Button with 6c7c.
TAG SB folds
TAG BB raises to 30

Both Vs make the call. I elect to also make the call. I make this call knowing I need to smash the flop to continue against TAG V's tight opening range.

Flop (~120)
10c7d8c

V Cbets to $70
Both LAG and bad V make the fold

Hero has about 210 left. What should he do? (Folding seems bad, so doesn't calling, is shipping it the optimal play? Is it that simple?)

Please note that I would have never called the 30 3b if both or even one V had folded. But based on position and money in the pot I felt like a call was justifiable.

All thoughts would be appreciated.

I really don’t like pre. I’d 3-bet or fold the first time around and AP definitely folding the second time around. J10s is probably weakest hand I’d take your line with pre under normal circumstances.

In an unraked game, it’s OK (as in losing but fine), but in a raked game we’re lighting money on fire imo.

AP I’d shove flop because while our fold equity is probably low at this stack depth, I don’t think V is bluffing very often 4-ways here on this texture... so you might as well GII now.

If you just call, you’re risking V check-folding what’s likely an overpair on every turn card that improves you- like a club or a 9.

Part of the problem with putting in 15BBs with this preflop, is that despite us absolutely smashing the flop... we’re not printing money this multi-way anyways with what’s always a weak FD.

Stuffing it in on the flop every day of the week. You’re +EV on the shove against nearly every V holding. Add in any FE at all and you’re in great shape.

Fold to the 3-bet pre. AP, shove, AINEC.

Still going to wait to see more replies but if I were to ship it on the flop what should V be continuing with?

All over pairs?

One pair with flush or straight draws?

Sets (obviously)
2 pairs (obviously)

If the roles were reversed what are you calling down with?

We flop loads of equity, pot is bloated due to pre= we ship it in. This spot with this stacksize isnt more complicated than that for me.

When we play 67s in a 3 bet pot, we cant ask for a much better flop than this. Even better that we are getting it in heads up against the aggressor, who is very overpairheavy and so much less chance our flushdraw is dominated.

I suspect you don't know the odds of you "smashing" the flop. Having a draw is not "smashing the flop." The odds with SC to hit 2 pair or better is about 20:1. The pot before you called was 97. That means you'd need to be able to be able to get not just one person to be all in, but two if you want this to be +EV. Chances of 3 people hitting a flop hard enough to go all in is near zero.

TBH, I'd be more inclined to play this if everyone else folded. I'd have a chance to bluff the 3 bettor.

As played, the SPR on the flop under 2. Nobody with TP or an OP is folding to any raise. You can actually beat a bluff. If you shove, you're getting 1.5:1 odds and need 2:1. You have outs. I'd call and see a turn.

anyone else think the raise by the V in the BB was light?
Bad Board for an overpair, i like the shove

If you don't know what to do here you definitely gotta fold to the 3-bet preflop. This is a huge flop for 76s in a bloated pot; you have 52% equity vs TT+/AKcc,AQcc.

We’re ahead of overpairs and also ahead of AcKc

Good god no. Ship it in and play for it all while our equity is at its peak with 2 cards to come.+EV shove=print money. Its really not more complicated here.

Agree...this situation quite often...you flop a combo flushdraw/pair (and in this case gutshot as well)...instead of being aggressive, so often when I call I miss the turn and then have to fold...or getting proper odds, have to call again (and miss).

Then it turns out the bettor has an ok hand (beating me), that would have laid it down had I shoved on the flop.

Or, they're tightish and will c/f when the flush comes in, so I don't even make any more money.

+ we simply need to play for it all, so we get our fair share of money equity back longterm. We cant afford to face the scenarios you mention, like hitting flush on the turn and doesent get the rest of the money for example.

We dont care if were getting called here either when we shove the flop. Our pure hand equity versus how much money is in the pot already makes sure we make money regardless in this spot.

fold to the 3-bet pre

as played if you aren't shoving here with this flop you should get up and leave.

Thanks for the replies.

In regards to my action on the flop;

I essentially thought about it for several seconds and then pushed it all in for about 209$. V goes deep into the tank and makes the call with QcQh.

The results of what happen dont matter, but if your V are you making that call?

for $209 yes I'm making that call from V's position

Bet/calling with QQ for this stacksize yes. Unless i have very spesific reads that my opponent is a total OMC nit that never stacks off with anything other than nutted hands.

I am not bet/folding an overpair in a bloated 3 bet pot here as a default.

Sure. Final pot is $538 and his call of $139 only represents 25.8% of the pot. Unless he puts you on sets and flopped straights only, he's got to have at least that much equity. On this board, there are plenty of semi-bluffs such as your actual hand available too. Against a range of 77-TT,J9s,9c7c,7c6c he has 29.9% equity and a clear call, even though he's crushed by your range.

Here's the thing, just because his call is profitable, doesn't mean that your shove wasn't. First off, you clearly had some FE if he tanked that hard. If he folds you win $190. If that happens even 15% of the time, that's $28.5 dollars in equity for you.

When he calls, 53.6% of the time you'll win $329 (+176.34) and 46.4% of the time you'll lose $209 (-95.58), for an overall EV of $80.76 (without even accounting for FE).

Is calling the three bet really that bad? It’s a small 3 bet and we are closing the action on the button.

This being said, I do agree that we probably should’ve 3 bet ourselves the first time around if we were going to play this hand.


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Its not extremely bad no. We would for sure prefer to be deeper though for several reasons. 200 blinds+ effective here and i peel this 3 bet on the button all week long.

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We're 120BB's effective and will be paying max rake whenever we win a pot with this hand multi-way.

Pre is standard, flop is an easy jam.

It's small relative to the pot but it's big relative to your stack. You are not going to hit the flop hard enough often enough for this to be +EV in the long run.

An effective stack around $300 before you call should be the minimum. That gives you the implied odds over 15X that you need on the $23 call. That is an absolute minimum and I would want more if BB is a decent player.