5bet shove or 4bet call OTB with AA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 297
Question of the ages...
Cash game either at 1/2 300 max or 2/5 500 max.
Table dynamics are pretty straight forward. Some fish with leaks - most play straight forward. Few limps here and there throughout the night.
We are on the the BUTTON and looking down at AA.
Hijack raises $12, HERO 3bets to $40, V reraises to $100. HERO?
1) Flat for value
2) Jam for value
Exclude all tournament input; this is cash game.
I feel flatting preflop for value disguises our range JJ-AA, AKs, AKo. Any K high flop versus AKs/AKo we are getting out stacks in. All 10 high flops we are getting our stacks in versus JJ-KK. Is flatting a 4bet accurate with these reasonings?
Or
Are we to jam preflop and play our hand face up? Preventing a QJ10 type of flop or a KKX flop? I feel JJ/QQ/maybe even KK will fold preflop and we missed massive value. Is this wrong?
I'm not sure exactly what the better play to do is and welcome input based on knowledge of low stakes NLHE.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 95
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 297
Everyone is full stacked at 300 or 500
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
I prefer the jam pre, fish almost never fold JJ+ here. It let's them make the mistake as opposed to us making it on a K high flop if they hit a set, if they fold JJ or QQ then you miss some value, they are never folding KK and I don't see too many people 4 betting AK here in the games I usually play. If they call and hit, move on to the next hand but most of the time you are getting their stack.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,210
This is completely dependent on your image and the villains images....where they're opening from...what they're 3 betting range is and frequency.
Is the hijack also your villain?? or is this hand 3 way?? How light have villains been calling down??
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,751
In my limited time (130 hrs) at 1/2 I've only seen a 4-bet like 2-3 times and it's always AA. Actually, it was KK one time and it was me doing the 4-betting. In that hand I ran into AA and spiked a K, wahoo!
I've actually been considering never 4-betting unless I'm up against a complete spewtard or for some reason the action is still not HU. I just think there's more value in flatting and trying to get it in on the flop assuming we're not very deep.
There are just so few 4 bets that even rec players lay down JJ+.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 95
If we're 100-150 BBs deep I'd shove preflop. There's not too many flops where the money's not going in after a 4-bet preflop. And unless villain is 4 betting light he shouldn't be folding to a 5-bet shove
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,220
At some point flatting does become an option. You have to be absurdly deep before it's really a viable one though. Unless there are one or more total maniacs in a game, 3 and 4 betting ranges are very narrow at low stakes. Even deep most villains 4 betting range is AK/QQ+ at most and often KK+. Against a range that tight, AA/KK are the only hands worth playing and even most fish realize this.
If villain's 4 bet is 1/10 of stacks or more, just shove. Either villain has a hand they are not folding or they don't. Any competent villain is going to know your range is super narrow and the fishy ones are gong to call too much. Flatting is more often letting them set mine for free then it's letting AK catch second pair.
When your so deep that the 4 bet is less then 1/10 of stack sizes, then you can consider flatting sometimes. For it to be worthwhile you need your villain to be competent enough to realize your range will be wider that deep and aggressive enough to try and bet you off your hand. Against most fish, no matter how deep you might as well shove when 5 betting.