I need some advice on whether I made the correct play. I was dealt 55 on the button playing live 1/3. Everyone limped and I opened for $12. The BB re raised me. This guy was re raising everyone. For example in a previous hand he 4-bet with J3 off. When the action was on him re raised to $170, I only had about $210 in my stack. so I thought for a while and shoved, he tanked and said "okay I call". Ultimately he won the pot at the end. He turned over his hand and he had T7 off. He hit his ten on the turn. Did I make the correct play or was it a stupid shove. I figured he was going to either raise me with any 2 cards and when I shoved I did not expect him to call but figured if he did I was gonna be a small favorite and flipping.

Fine

It's fine, but I think it's worth mentioning that against this type of villain, you should really try to find a spot where you're very likely to be in better shape than a coin flip.

yeah thats how i felt after the hand. I feel against loose players like this it is usually a profitable play, but I don't feel comfortable making that play with 55 all the time even against players like that. maybe 7's or 8's

You said "everyone limped". I dont know how many people that is, but limping behind is better than raising to $12. You are never winning this pot without hitting a set. (Forget about the maniac reraising. Im talking about a normal hand).

If 5+ people limped, you're going to get called 3-4 times. Youre going to lose your $12 most of the time. The time you hit a set you may or may not stack someone. They dont have strong hands since they limped. They're gonna have to hit 2 pair+ at the same time you hit the set to get stacks in. Some of those times that they do hit a big hand its gonna be a higher set or another hand that beats you.

If you just limp along, youre risking $3. I guarantee you that you have a better chance to win more on a risk reward basis.

Risk/reward wise, you have to win 4 times as much money when you raise $12 than you do if you overlimped. That's not gonna happen. You have to be able to win this pot unimproved for raising to be more +EV than limping is. If youre gonna raise, make it more like $35+ so you can get it HU and win unimproved....but Im just limping here.

Not too mention that raising $12 here is a serious sizing tell. Would you ever raise $12 with AA? QQ? AQs? I doubt it.
That means that a good observant player is going to 3 bet you very lite from the blinds (not this guy..hes just a maniac gambler).
In fact I would limp/reraise you from EP with my entire range here and youre probably going to put me on AA/KK. Just something to think about.

thanks for the input. I explained it kind of poorly not "everyone limped" a few people folded. The reason I chose to raise small was due to the fact that most of the time players were folding to being raise pre flop. I agree though that a small raise is leaving myself vulnerable to re raises which is what happened and I was put in a tough spot.

depending on how many people limped, raise more pre. a 4x raise after several limps is much too small. Add a bb for every limper.

everybody folding pre would've been a good result tho.

overlimp preflop

+1

And definitely limp behind.

Was this guy a manic post or just donating pre?

Mostly people would fold to him when he would do this. Only a few times did anyone really call him or re raise him. The few times he did this and the hand went to showdown he always had weak holdings.

Yeah, then I would just nit up and wait for premiums. Of course, that means you're immediately going to be card dead for the next two hours...

I'm guessing he's also opening a lot of hands after a zillion limpers? And I'm guessing the table is well aware of this?

In which case, I'd just overlimp the Button and see what happens. With literally the whole table limping, there is a very good chance someone is limping a monster to limp/reraise this guy and we can get away for relatively cheap preflop facing that sort of action. And even if the guy just flats preflop and no one limp/reraises, I'm not even sure what the point of preflop was if one of the most expected results is very multiway for $12 each?

As played facing the big raise, it's still a very dicey situation. You're basically flipping against a lot of his range with relatively small dead money in the pot (even results wise against this POS hand you are only a 53% fave), occasionally absolutely crushed, and rarely crushing. Preflop is fairly meh, imo.

You say you didn't expect a call when you shoved over his $170 raise when you only have $210? Seriously? Not only is he calling 100% of the time here, he probably should be with ATC given his odds.

IMO, this falls under the "wait for better spots" category, which is admittedly sometimes difficult to do given that this guy probably won't last at the table too long and obviously we're itching to get our piece.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I dont like the pf (call)shove. 55 is too low down to let random hands see 5 cards. And you obviously have no fold equity. You are usually up against 2 overs or are crushed versus an overpair.

If a guy said I go all in blind, 55 while being ahead of random hands wont hold up often enough for me to want to gamble and instead I avoid the variance...unless im stuck and looking to gamboool

This may be wrong thinking, but...

+1

Even though you got "unlucky" in this hand against an idiot (just barely percentage wise although you did run well below EV as Mike will tell you), my reading-between-the-lines thinks you may have a bunch of big leaks in your game / thinking. Post some more hands!

Gwelcometotheforum!G

[GRUNCH] I think one reason he 3! pre is that you raised so small after everyone limped. When you raise that much, you're telling me you'd like to see a flop multi-way, because you'll make a lot of money if you hit OTF.

So, you're capping your range. You would raise a lot more with JJ, would you not? Even AA wants to narrow the field down to HU or 3 way, and play for all the dead money.

So your V thinks this is an excellent opportunity to squeeze & his call with T7o, after you shoved, says to me that he doesn't value his money like a hard working farmer does.

It's either that, or, he believes you would have raised more with TT+. Therefore, you either have 22-66, 88,99, or got lucky and dealt a pair of 7s or Ts.
So he goes with it & counts on being in a race against your underpair.

Plus, he doesn't give a shytt about money, obviously, and is looking for an excuse to call.

Only reasons to over limp are to limp shove, or fade someone else who is planning that if this guy is blasting every hand. If he's being selective and won't raise tiny pots where everyone limped then raising is better.

You can argue raising is better than limping if you want (I disagree) but there's no way that raising to $12 is better than much of anything.

raising to 12 after all those limpers is just a little bitty pot sweetener and if anyone is smart they will read right into that and squeeze feather light but we do have 55 otb.

If we limp we pretty much have to flop a set to win (and we won't always win with a low set in an 8 way limped pot). If we raise to a normal amount like $22 to get it heads up, we don't always need to flop a set to win because we have position, initiative and hopefully a skill advantage over the villian (we don't always need a card advantage).

so your right, raising to $12 isn't better than limping, but raising to $22 is. The only times I would limp is if there are habitual 3bettors after us who are light.

Fading a trap is a very good reason to limp/shove. Raising isolates us against a range we're probably only a little bit better than a flip against with no dead money. The benefits of getting a few callers who will fold to a re-squeeze and getting away when one of the limpers wakes up with something are huge.

Yea but it's rare and then we just are set mining a stupid limped pot. If we can induce the fish with a few bb raise then it's better. We can just fold when someone squeezes and lose a few bb who cares.

Limp pre.

Probably overlimping with 55 OTB, but a raise is fine. I'd prefer sizing up against this many limpers though.

I don't mind jamming against a wild V, but apparently you have almost zero FE against this V if he's calling it off with T7 off. Against this V you may be better served to jam with hands that can leave you well ahead of V. With 55 you're flipping at best and sometimes crushed.

This "little bitty pot sweetener" is for 6% of our stack; it's not exactly trivial. Plus if we simply overlimp to see a "everybody limps" pot of ~$25, the SPR will be ~8, which will be trivial to get in stacks with 3 postflop bets in position against a huge field (i.e. we don't need the pot sweetener to play for stacks).

Raising to $22 *might* be better if we're pretty confident that'll take down the pot or at worst get it HU most of the time. Against a world of limpers, that would rarely work in my game, you'd probably need to go *much* larger. And then we're putting in a ridiculous amount of our stack ($22 is a rather huge 10% of our stack) and could still easily run into a limp/raising monster that blows us off our hand.

And on top of that, with the world limping we're already pretty much getting our immediate odds to setmine, let alone the implied odds.

Goverlimpingalldayeveryday,imoG

Just limp pre if hes 3 betting all the time. As played, against guys like this, whatever - get it in. Id wait for better spot though. Youre almost always flipping at best.