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Old 07-11-2018, 06:56 PM   #1
Viral25
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5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Friday night, everybody is apparently watching the football/gone to the WSOP cause the poker room is only half full and all the regs are AWOL .

Villain/BTN: well dressed MAWG with a hipster beard. Looks like someone who spends his evenings in front of a fireplace reading poetry. Has a Garry Kasparov book with him, allthough currently not reading it. He has been very active/LAG, opening tonnes of hands, 3betting a bunch and winning a lot without showdown. Overall he comes across as a knowledgeable player, not recreational at all. He's probably up about 2k at this point.

Earlier he bet/3bet allin on the turn on a AQTx board after a 3bet pre, got the fold and asked the guy "where you bluffing the blockers also?". Probably just a needle, but still pretty bada**.

Hero/EP: mid thirties WG, (am i officially a MAWG now??), playing pretty TAG but not nitty. Probably come across as a solid grinder to villain.

OTTH
8 handed.
Pre:
Hero (stack:2.5k) is UTG+1 and opens to 30 with black JJ.
(i've been experimenting with a bigger 6x open from EP, vs my normal 4x. Not sure if i like it yet).
Villain/BTN (stack: covers) 3bets to 100.
Hero calls.
Pretty standard at these stackdepths.

Flop (210):
AJ6

I check, he checks behind.
Again, pretty standard. I assume villain has some decent/marginal showdown value here.

Turn: (210)
AJ6 Q

Hero bets 120, V calls.
Villain has both higher sets in his range, but also KK, TT or some rag Axs, maybe AQ, so no need to bet big imo.


River: (450)
AJ6 Q 3
Hero bets 320, V raises to 1000, Hero.....

I considered checking since most of his range isn't that strong, but letting KK or A5s get a free showdown seems bad. On the other hand, getting raised obviously sucks monkeyballs.
It's really unlikely he ever has KT, which probably doesn't 3bet pre, or checks back flop. He probably does cbet AQ, which is the only valuehand that i realisticly beat. So that leaves a KK type blocker bluff, or a higher set, imo.



As always, thoughts on all streets are welcomed. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:08 PM   #2
matzah_ball
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

It’s a meh call
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #3
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

I play pretty much the same until the river. I prefer a river check call here. As played I think this is the bottom of my calling range and I feel like you have to call here.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:54 PM   #4
BIoodRose
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Sounds like a competent player. You will be up against AA and QQ sometimes, but you are just as likely to go up against AKd, AQ, KK.

Does he ever have bluffs here? KQdd? though that hand should be betting flop. Probably won't be raising here, but won't be too sad to call. I'll leave the tears for AK combos without Kd that I decide to call though, probably lightest I would find a call here.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:58 PM   #5
Jarretman
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Can't fold, can't raise.

The fact there's a chance he could play some AQ/AJ going for thin value vs AK makes it a super easy call... nh except for the 6x open pre lol
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:15 PM   #6
HomelessPizza
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Guy is aggro, loves to 3bet, and we flat with JJ OOP? I put in the 4bet for value.

OTR, its a standard call vs this V type....I would probably call with weaker hands also given his history and his line makes absolutely no sense (A3s?).
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:19 PM   #7
deadmoney98
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Folding here is crazy. Good for him if he has AA or QQ -- in that case you lost the minimum.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:31 PM   #8
Koss
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

I'm never folding here. Your range is way wider than middle set and he can absolutely be bluffing with a diamond SC or something like KQs. Against a more straightforward player I think you can fold, but against an aggro player who can bluff, I'd call this one off and not think too much about it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #9
shorn7
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Stared at this board a long time and given stack sizes I just can't see why he wouldn't click back raise his value hands on the turn (AA/QQ/AQ/AJ) after you lead so I don't think we are beat here.

This is gonna sound really weird, but my spidey sense is he ran into bottom set here and had called the turn looking to rep diamonds OTR. Very strange line by him overall.

You can't fold given how he played the hand. Very interested to see results.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:02 PM   #10
fishsoup
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Snapping this off against this villain.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:23 PM   #11
twitcherroo
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Too much AQ/AJ in V’s range to fold. Too much QQ, AA to reraise. Calling and expecting to be ahead.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:03 PM   #12
Viral25
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
I play pretty much the same until the river. I prefer a river check call here. As played I think this is the bottom of my calling range and I feel like you have to call here.
Yeah i considered checking river, but i think most of his potential bluffs bet flop and he's gonna have a bunch of showdownable hands.

Anyway, based on the comments here i wasted about 4 minutes of my life by tanking and eventually calling the raise.

Spoiler:


Thanks for the replies guys.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:15 PM   #13
dellerrrr
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Brutal QQ makes sense though. Still can't fold I think
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:33 PM   #14
shorn7
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dellerrrr View Post
Brutal QQ makes sense though. Still can't fold I think
Wow, really weirdly played by V especially on the turn. No way I flat QQ there as so many action killing cards can come on the river. Not only that, but he missed out on value by not raising your turn bet overall.

Tough beat but you played it totally fine.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:44 PM   #15
Minatorr
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

QQ seems like a standard line there. Raising is just pretty bad, as you have 0 bluffs there. Dont think this call at all is a snap, it’s super marginal at best
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:26 PM   #16
fishsoup
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
QQ seems like a standard line there. Raising is just pretty bad, as you have 0 bluffs there. Dont think this call at all is a snap, it’s super marginal at best
You would consider folding here? Are we only ever calling with the nuts here?

To clarify, I think this is close to a snap in that our decision is quite clear and any other option seems out of question. I don't mean to say that it's a fist pump as it's a big river decision and I don't think we are good 90%+ of the time, but definitely more than average (and well above pot odds). I'd call quickly and only really scared of a weirdly played AA or QQ.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:43 PM   #17
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

This is a weird one.
None of the hands mentioned (AK, AQ, QQ, AA) make sense to me.
AK/AQ would've likely c-bet the flop. (Checking behind seems very odd)
AA may check behind, but after hero leads out on the turn, I would think villain would raise with all the draws out there. Same deal with QQ.

Don't think I'm ever folding the river, except against a super nit.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:06 PM   #18
antialias
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

AA/QQ doesn't make sense to me...from those I would expect a reraise on the turn. QQ I would even expect a bet on the flop to check how scared you are of the ace.
Only other hand that beats you is K10 and that doesn't square as a 3 bet against an UTG+1 raiser

Yeah, he played it tricky, but for me that would be a snap call. Sometimes you just gotta lose.
Though if a LAG isn't betting in good bluffing spots (when you checked flop) that does set off some alarms.
Still: Too many of his value hands that you beat, though..AJ, AQ, or A3s, A6s that he decided to 3bet and some missed draws that he might bluff.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:39 PM   #19
bigdaddycope
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

One of those weird spots where we probably prefer calling with a hand like AQ than JJ since AQ blocks so much more of his value range.

Still calling with JJ here just don't think it's as much of a snap as people are making it out to be.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:36 PM   #20
HawkesDave
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddycope View Post
One of those weird spots where we probably prefer calling with a hand like AQ than JJ since AQ blocks so much more of his value range.
Agree with that concept strongly overall but never here. If Hero held AQ here and the hand played out the exact same way, he beats nothing that raises that river but a bluff. V would never raise AK/AJ there on that river card and he doesn't have many bluffs that are checking the flop, floating the turn and then bluffing the river while Hero has AQ/AJ/QQ/JJ well within his range.

For the same reason, I don't think I like a check on this river. V has so few bluffs that float the turn, I don't think you're getting many hands to bet here.
b/f or b/c are better options. As played? I think I call, too, and have my hand halfway to the muck by the time he opens his, knowing I likely lost. It's a marginal call, at best.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:43 AM   #21
Viral25
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Re: 5-5nl: Herofold middle set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddycope View Post
One of those weird spots where we probably prefer calling with a hand like AQ than JJ since AQ blocks so much more of his value range.
On the other hand with JJ we don't block AQ or KQ that he possibly turns into a bluff. So it kinda evens out.

After the hand i was thinking to myself what the worst hand would be that i'd call with in this spot. Pretty sure i call off with AQ as well, but would fold AJ.

Kinda sick that my entire calling range is like 12 combo's in a spot where villain could definitely be overbluffing
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