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5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM 5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM

06-12-2016 , 08:20 PM
Tricky tag BB covers me- raised in HJ w/ 86o cbet and showed. besides that iso's a decent amount and has cbet and taken some pots down w/o sd. When the money goes in on big pots he has the goods. He is on the more calling end of the tag spectrum pre because some of the other players are deep.

Hero sb 550ish- playing tag game raising and isoing for the most part. Has taken down several pots w/o showdown but has also raised in similar situations as below pre and they often go mw.

(LBS)loose bluffy station (when checked to) 285

---noone has really been limping strong ranges anticipating my raises so we likely have the best hand preflop--

2 ep/mp (400ish) limps, LBS limps in co, button folds, hero has AJdd and _____?

Last edited by 7weeks2days; 06-12-2016 at 08:30 PM. Reason: thanks scrybe hand added
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-12-2016 , 08:27 PM
Look at your cards.
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06-12-2016 , 08:44 PM
Check.

I took AJs out of my blind raising range (with multiple limpers), not a money maker imo.

If we're gonna raise I like to bomb it to clear the field, 60.
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06-12-2016 , 08:52 PM
I'd bet pretty big. We're <100BB effective against 2 villains and about 60BB against the CO. Make it 50.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-12-2016 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASLheadwalk
Check.

I took AJs out of my blind raising range (with multiple limpers), not a money maker imo.

If we're gonna raise I like to bomb it to clear the field, 60.


+1. Check it or bomb it. Don't want large pot to play OOP.


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5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-12-2016 , 10:02 PM
Make it your regular size, like $40. We have a hand that plays well heads up and multiway with the nut draw and nut pairs, against opponents with weak ranges that we want to play against. Don't try to blow JTo out of the water here. If we get a bunch of calls, fine. If we get 0-1 calls, also fine.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-12-2016 , 10:07 PM
Complete SB or raise to $40-50. More inclined to raise. Pretty standard, let's go to the flop.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 02:38 AM
I can see calling or raising big to try to get HU. I'm fine with either but leaning towards the raise. I won't auto cbet though. Depends on flop and number of players. I have no qualms c/f if I don't like the flop and there are multiple players.

Btw, "loose bluffy station" doesn't make sense. Bluffy = agro while station = passive. Is he LAG or LAP?
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
I can see calling or raising big to try to get HU. I'm fine with either but leaning towards the raise. I won't auto cbet though. Depends on flop and number of players. I have no qualms c/f if I don't like the flop and there are multiple players.

Btw, "loose bluffy station" doesn't make sense. Bluffy = agro while station = passive. Is he LAG or LAP?

Let me clarify I hope this helps. He is a passive station until someone shows weakness or when checked to he will stab.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 03:30 AM
Hero raises to 45, bb calls, CO calls. Flop is AK4r 1 diamond. Hero?
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days
Hero raises to 45, bb calls, CO calls. Flop is AK4r 1 diamond. Hero?
Standard would be cbetting $80 but I actually don't mind checking to induce here. We pretty much have this flop locked up. AQ/AK/K4 is unlikely so we're only losing to A4/44.

Plus we have a V in CO who likes to stab when checked to.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 07:19 AM
limp or raise pre are both fine.
check now can be fun.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Standard would be cbetting $80 but I actually don't mind checking to induce here. We pretty much have this flop locked up. AQ/AK/K4 is unlikely so we're only losing to A4/44.

Plus we have a V in CO who likes to stab when checked to.
We might be ahead now, but tons of turn cards are bad for us and leave no idea where we are.

In position a checkback would be ok, if not preferred but checking out of position here is going to leave you in a world of hurt on future streets.

The only way you can check is if you think CO will stab at the pot 80+% of the time. If this is the case, c/r. If not, don't start trying to play fancy for no reason and fire out a c bet.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 08:46 AM
I like a lead on this flop for 2/3 pot. I don't see a reason to deviate from value-extraction mode yet. Also wouldn't mind folding out tricky BB now before the board gets scary and he decides to apply pressure.

Would be interested in hearing more from the x-induce camp. In particular, who are we inducing to bet. If it's CO, how are we responding? I'm not sure I like flatting with BB behind and raising feels like over playing vs. A station who sometimes bluffs.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 09:24 AM
Check is possible cos we likely dont get 3streets value from worse. But it is x/c not c/r.
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06-13-2016 , 09:44 AM
Check and let broadways/pairs see a free turn? Absolutely not.
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06-13-2016 , 09:47 AM
BBs cold call is a little sketch. Most likely pocket pair or hi-sc (JTs, KQs), sometimes AK/AQ.

If V in CO likes to stab I think we can check, trying to get a bet out of him. Might just c/f if BB decides to bet.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 01:57 PM
Bet. $80-90. Straightforward value play. No need to get fancy here OOP.


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5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 02:16 PM
I'm not sure about betting.

Let's say we bet, and BB calls (this flop does hit a portion of his cold-calling range). Won't CO come along with basically any piece? Now we're three ways in a decent sized pot OOP where nearly every turn card will be bad for us.

But if we check, then BB can (and should) fire with ATC and we really won't know where we are at. Maybe this will fold out CO, but then again, he's a station. So he's probably calling. Then what? Calling is the same issue as with option 1. Raising might be lighting money on fire...

Amusingly I think check-raise or check-shove is the best option here, assuming the BB bets and CO calls. We really only get crushed by AK, A4, and 44, of which there are precious few combinations.

If BB doesn't bet, and CO stabs, we can also shove. If it gets checked through we're in the same awkward turn spot, but at least we have more room to maneuver than if it goes bet-call-call or check-bet-call-call.

To be clear, all decisions seem somewhat bad. This hand is super awkward and is a big reason why I hate raising AJs out of the blinds in this spot.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 05:00 PM
Hero decides to bet, planning to stack off with the CO at any point in the hand. If BB comes along then reevaluate. Hero bets 65, BB calls hero calls. Turn Q, hero?
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06-13-2016 , 05:49 PM
can BB have AK, AJ, AT, or A9-A7 suited here after the preflop and flop action?

I don't really see many floats in his range with the short stack fishy along for the ride. You raised from the SB and then led into 2 opponents on an A high flop, so he shouldn't put much air into your range. That means he is calling with a hand that he believes has showdown value against you, or is slowplaying a big hand. Whether that includes A7-AJ, or if it is just AQ/AK makes a big difference.

I'm inclined to check the turn and evaluate, if BB fires, it becomes really villain dependant on whether to fold or commit. if BB checks and the other guy ships, we probably have to commit, though we are at the mercy of BB if he decided to be tricky with a big hand here on a safe board.
5/5  vs a tricky tag and loose station PAHWM Quote
06-13-2016 , 08:30 PM
Bets are on the small side so far.

I think we're in a guessing game at this point. JT float came in, but BB is gonna raise that on the flop usually. The Q turn takes away some AQs, but with two calls on the flop I'm worried we're dead.

Given how we played it I think we can bet/fold this turn (not against CO), 150.
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