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5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove 5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove

02-13-2016 , 02:06 AM
5/5 blinds
CO: $650. Loose reg, 50s Persian male. Seems like a losing player. Can be in for a ton but can also have a monster stack
SB (hero): $750 with QQ

CO open raises $25, Hero flats. I coulda 3bet but wouldn't know what to do if A or K flops. Plus we're deep and I don't want to play a big pot oop with a lot behind.

Flop ($50): 7 5 2
Hero c/c $55. I was gonna c/r until he pot it.

Turn ($155): 7
CO shoves, hero puke folds.

Thoughts?
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 02:26 AM
You are not deep and flatting pre is awful.

Turn is a standard call.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
You are not deep and flatting pre is awful.

Turn is a standard call.
OK maybe deep wasn't the right word but we're still 130 BB effective.

And villain shoved over $500 into a $155 pot!! I was confident he wouldn't do this with a FD or 88-TT because it looks like the turn 7 could have hit me.

JJ popped into my head, as did AA/KK. Seemed like he might have just wanted to push me off a FD and if I turned trips then so be it. I just couldn't find many hands I could beat other than JJ/TT.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 02:48 AM
I don't think turn anything is by any means standard. He could be doing this with all overpairs and or fds, but a 7 seems more likely. who knows. Pre is definitely a 3 bet.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 03:44 AM
Preflop is by far the easiest part of hold'em, and getting it right is often the difference between winning and losing. In the sb against co open, QQ is far from the worst hand you should 3 bet here. If an A flops check, and he won't be able to bet with impunity because you'll play ATs and A5s-A2s the exact same way.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 08:11 AM
You're playing your Queens OOP like you're playing a medium pocket pair, from your description of why you did not 3 bet; pretty much looking for a set.

Flop you've got fancy play syndrome. You've an overpair out of position, the only thing you have going for you is aggression at this time. Might as well put him on the defensive instead.

You also checked the Turn, passively.

I guess all I'm angling at is that you probably could have played much more aggressively and had a better outcome.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 08:51 AM
Let's say he's got all the possible 7x combos (76/75/87/97/A7) and he also plays AA/KK that way: that's 52 combos total that we lose to. Now let's look at all the overpairs he could have that we beat: 88-JJ. There are 32 of those. Now all we have to do is figure out how many flush draw combos he could have. Since he's loose, could he have 20 that he's opening with, assuming it's accurate to give him that many 7x combos?

Of course, it's a lot more simple that that. Is he ever overbet shoving 7x here because he's got monsters under the bed or he's a wizard? Or is he shoving because he wants you to fold better? If it's the former, fold. If it's the latter, call.

Oh and 3-bet pre. We aren't super deep and we have a premium hand. Let's get some value.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 09:08 AM
To answer the question on what you do if an A or K shows up on the flop when you 3bet pf is pretty simple with a loose player. Check to the A and bet the K.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 11:21 AM
If I was the preflop raiser and the hand played out like this it would be pretty tough, but as the preflop caller, Im calling here most of the time.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 12:16 PM
Grunch.

Against described V, I'd 3b the QQ. Yes, if an A or a K comes, you're going to have to play poker, but you're happy to shorten stacks here and set up an easy flop or turn shove. I'd make it 100 if V is loose enough to call that. (Or more, make it as much as he'll call with less than KK+). If he 4b shoves, make a good decision based on your reads. Most LLSNL players won't 4b without KK+, so I'd generally fold.

As played, your flop plan was good. He pots it, but you're ahead of everything except KK, AA, 77, 55, 22. That's a lot of hands. Make it 200 to go and shove almost any turn

As played, puke call (generally we suggest just throwing up a little into your mouth to avoid slowing the game down). You might be ahead, you might be behind. You're probably roughly flipping against his range and you're getting odds.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote
02-13-2016 , 12:21 PM
I think we should raise this preflop since we have a premium hand and we're OOP. We aren't super deep, either. In position I would probably raise this to $75 total, but since we're OOP, I'd increase that a bit to $90-100 total.

The hand would play out differently from there -- we'd lead at this flop, and probably the turn as well, depending on Villain's response. I think the hand probably becomes easier to play.

I think you should have followed through with your flop checkraise.

As played -- I would probably fold to the turn shove. Villain has shown strength every step of the way, and his bet sizing on the flop feels like he might have hit a set and is scared of the FD. I think without a read that he's very capable of making this kind of excessive semi-bluff with a FD of his own that we have to let this go. At the end of the day, all we have is a pair and we have to hope Villain makes this massive overbet with two diamonds or a hand like JJ or TT.
5/5 - QQ OP facing massive turn shove Quote

      
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