First time playing 5-5 NL a new game at the casino; Buy-in was $500 to $1,500 and most people bought in full so the table has been deep.

I have been at the table for about 4 hours since it opened, villain has been there the entire time as well. I think I have played with him once before a few months ago at 2-5 but not sure if he remembers me. He has a little over $3,000 and I cover.

Villain has been very LAG although he is positionally aware and has opened less often in early position. He plays a lot of hands in position and is sticky post flop but appears to make good decisions and has won a lot of hands without showdown. He has also won some hands showing down marginal but winning hands.

He did lose a big pot earlier to me when I doubled up through him. I was in the SB (first) with 23o and he was in the BB. Flop went 7 way and it came A 5 4 with two of a suit. I bet about the pot on the flop and got two callers, turn was a blank and I bet just under the pot, he raised, I 3 bet small and he shoved. River bricked and I fast rolled the straight and he mucked.

On to the hand. Villain is UTG and raises to $35 which is about his standard open. His opens have been on the large side for the table. He gets a one caller and I have KK in the first blind. I raise it to $150. Only villain calls.

($340) Flop is 6, 5, 3 two diamonds. I don’t have the king of diamonds. I bet $200 and he calls.

($740) Turn is the Jack of club. I bet $300 and he calls.

($1,340) River is the 7 of diamonds. Hero?

I would appreciate input on all streets. Also is there merit this deep to just flatting pre-flop and trying to play small ball with a big overpair oop?

What does Villain know about your 3 betting range?

Giving him better than 3:1 ott. This is a typical tough spot. He can really rep the flush no matter what you do because your line is obvious that thats not what you are on except maybe AKdd. But he could easily have Axdd since you said he doesnt open as much from EP.

I think your 3bet size pre is good. Otf it could be bigger but not bad. Otr its tough cuz he prob know you dont have a flush. If you bet he'll raise a good bit of the time here and you are put to a tough decision. If you check he'll prob bet. Im not too worried ab the straight here.

An argument could be made to pot control the turn and check but if you bet it shouldve been more like $500-650. Got to deny the odds and assuming hes drawing to the nuts thats 12 outs thats about 3:1 and you were giving him 3.47:1. So calling with a NFD is correct for villain and that doesnt take any implied odds into account.

$500 would give him 2.5:1
$600 offers him 2.25:1

He probably views me as very tight, so JJ+, AK.

I've probably 3-bet twice at the table prior to this hand, one time I took it down with a c-bet and once I got stacked with KK OTB. I had around $1,000 and 3-bet a regular who was opening light to $135. Flop came 6, 5, 3 rainbow. Reg raised my $200 flop bet all-in and I called. Reg won with 42 suited.

Turn bet is too small IMO and as stated allows Vllian to profitably play his flush draws and combo draws. Further Villian probably believes he has great implied odds as he has seen something that might make him believe you won't get away from overpairs.

River as played is tough because Villian can credibly represent flush draws. I'd bet something like 700 hoping to get paid by hands like 88-10's and QQ as well as for the times villian floated you on the flop and happened to pair his AJ or KJ holding, and probably fold to a shove.

How does V play his draws? I think this is the key. I am not to worried about SD. I would discount a set or 2pair because there was no raise involved.

He didn't 4bet so we can discount AA,KK. Does he 4bet with AK, QQ? Would he float you and then bet on a scare card?

Defitnetly bet bigger $450-550 OTT.

Not really sure how he plays his draws as I don't recall seeing him show down a draw. He definitely will float and bet a scare card. He has floated a number of hands.

I agree that I probably bet too little on the turn. I bet small because I was trying to pot control. Since I knew he floats a lot I figured he would rarely check the turn and would probably bet more than $300 with his entire range.

Was this at DE Park by chance?

Yeah turn bet is too small. I'm normally a b/f by default but I don't think betting river is very good here. I check and probably evaluate. I do think I am folding a decent % of the time.

Edit: Just saw your read that he float/bets scare card some. This likely increases my calling frequency obviously and weights rivers to c/c

If that's your read, than I think you should have definetly checked raised on the turn. Checking the turn is horrible bad because of the risk of letting villian take a free card and making it easy for him to play perfectly against you on the river. If that is not likely to happen got to check on that turn all day

Why don't you like bet fold? I think it is infinitely harder for Villian to decide to bluff after we barrel into him 3 streats and the bluff becomes his whole stack (especially since villian might not think he can get hero to fold an overpair), than when we check to him.

Why would I want to make it harder for him to bluff?

This is not really a b/f type of board IMO. Every draw got there and our hand is face up.

Is it hard to bluff here? I suppose it can be hard to pull the trigger but not hard to see the bluff opportunity for any thinking player

Our hand is face up as an overpair? You don't think we ever have hands like AKdd or AQdd?

I think you want to make it harder for Villian to bluff because it is really hard for hero to make a call given how the hand was played.

I think we agree Hero wants to get to showdown with his hand if possible because Hero beats a decent part of Villians range. Betting the river I think gets us there a decent % of the time against hands we beat. I guess I'm probably thinking I'd have a harder time folding after I checked when it is such an obvious bluff/scare card with the way Hero and villian have played so far knowing I'm up against a player who thinks and makes moves.

Grunch:

I have very little experience > 400bb deep. So ignore the following.

I would not have 3B here. Being OOP is going to be very difficult.

Flat the raise and play poker. You rate to have the strongest hand on most flops, and you can represent lots of draws when the board gets scary.

I'm definitely trying not to get it in for >400bb with only one pair.

This. I'm not a big fan of 3betting pre once u get deep (like 300bb or higher) against competent players unless the pot will have 3+ villains in which case we reraise to isolate. Just flat and play post flop and extract value where ur hand is way underrepped

There are only two combos total of akdd and aqdd. There are 24 total combos of 1010+. If villain is a competent lag and ur 3betting range is narrow like 1010+ and aq+ villain can make life a living hell for u if u 3bet pre. He can flat with a wide range and rep lots of board to either steal the pot from u or hit a monster and u won't be able to get away from his two pairs+ since his range is so wide

I agree that the turn bet sizing needs to be a lot larger. On the river you basically beat 88,99,78,AJ, and his air that he's trying to steal with. Like pony said, based on the reads that he loves to rep boards and make plays, checking will almost certainly result in you facing a psb or worse.
By betting you pretty much force him to bluff with most of his stack in a spot where it looks like your not trying to fold. This is much tougher to do than bet a scare card when checked to. The problem is you don't beat much besides bluffs basically.

Personally I don't think I would be able to check/call or bluff catch here if/when he bombs the river.

It's certainly not an ideal spot to bet/fold but if you want to get to showdown, I think it's the only way to go. I'd lead ~$750 and fold to a raise. Rep AdQd before he has the chance to. Or check/fold, which has a ton of merit because you beat so little.

Regardless, I'm not calling off ~$1350+ bluff catching here.

Best way to defend yourself in these situations when your playing this deep is too widen your 3b range. Eliminates your opponents io tremendously. Obviously this is v and table dynamic dependent, but if you can't 3b your premium hands profitably, then there is something wrong with your pre flop game.

But there is definitely nothing wrong with flatting this deep. Being oop and not having the opportunity to 3b an amount that will offer a favorable SPR to stack off post flop makes flatting a definite option.

Post flop is pretty difficult imo. Don't have much experience this deep. Flop looks fine. Turn should be larger probably. River I think is either a b/f or a c/f. I know b/f looks sort of ridiculous at this point, but I can very confidently expect this opponent to only shove over the top for value since he should feel he has very little fe at this point.

Betting small for value also looks appealing since so few opponents have it in them to value bet thinly on this board, so you may get looked up light since he'd expect you to check all your marginal hands.

Thanks for the responses.

The more I thought about the hand, the more I thought that flatting preflop was best, especially since my 3 bet sets up an awkward SPR of about 10 versus the initial raiser.

If I flat the SPR is 30 or so with two opponents.

I agree that the turn bet was too small although against exactly Ad xd it gives him slightly incorrect odds versus my holding.

I do understand I need to open up my 3b range especially if I'm going to play against competent opponents. My thought is to be polarized against good opponents but widen my 3b range linearly against weaker opponents when in position.

Anyway, I tried a blocker bet on the river of $350, villain tanked for about 15 seconds and shoved.

All in all I think I played the hand poorly.

It is certainly possible but there are a ton of other combos than just those two. Plus if villain holds one of those two he obv knows we don't.

This is a terrible reason to bet FWIW. Essentially you are advocating betting to see where we are.

I said from the start I think betting river is burning money and really believe that against a LAGGY opponent.

Yeah... blocking bets don't work for me, dunno why. I have pretty much given up this tactic.

I don't hate the blocking bet, but given the action, the best hand you could possibly have had here is AK or JJ. So Villain's shove is great once you show weakness with the small river bet. If he has the A in his hand, then he pretty much knows he can own you (if you are capable of folding).

I would have been more likely to c/c a 1/2 pot or less on the river.

Anyway, good fold since most likely Villain can beat 1 pair.

The 3bet pre was good and you could have even made it a little more if you wanted. The time to consider having no 3bet range oop (or a wide one but small sizing), is like when you're BB and it's folded to good lag in co/otb and SB folds.

Playing deep oop does suck and is high variance, but that doesn't make it unprofitable. You do have to be hyper aware of perceived ranges and any difference between villain's perceived range and actual range that they don't realize you are aware of though. Even really good lags will sometimes revert to 'repping the deck' this deep even though they know their actual range is capped/smaller because often enormous bets/pots just scare the crap out of people with marginal hands (which could be the case in this spot).

Wouldnt even have a 3b range against a LAG oop this deep. Not if they are a good player. 3b in position this deep is a different story.

I like 3bet pre. I probably c/c turn. If I do bet the turn, I bet much bigger. As played, I might c/r. Think you fold out everything except the nuts. Sad thing about checking is that he checks back lots of hands like 99 with a diamond. I don't really hate just barreling river either.

You can't really play your hand as a value hand anymore, because you're bottom of your perceived range by far.