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5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. 5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep.

05-28-2017 , 11:15 AM
Villain is a mid 30's Asian man. Seems competent, playing LAG style, but I've only been at the table for 60-90min so no solid reads post, but haven't seen anything spewey. V has 3b really wide. Seen him do so with AQo and 76s.

UTG: Experienced player just sat down & is waiting for the higher game to get going.

Hero: Likely viewed as weak/tight. Have made a few pf raises, but was forced to shut down OTF/T. Stack a bit under 1k, mostly everyone else, including V has me covered.

UTG opens $15, MP call, H calls, CO calls, V on BTN $75, picks up some a caller from blinds, no one else folds. We go to flop 6 way.

Flop $450

QT4

checks through

Turn $450

5

checks to V, who fires $200, folds to hero who flats, fold

River: $850 w/ ~$700 left in stack

Q

What do we think about shoving? We have a weak pair here & no blockers to broadway cards. I figured V might weigh our range to Q weak kicker, like QJ/Q9/Q8... Maybe 55. We've been passive so far, so figured that might increase FE. Considered bluff catching as well, but thought V fires if we check w/ entire range a good amount of the time where I'd feel uncomfortable calling anything over 1/2 pot.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 11:51 AM
What hand do you have?
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 12:02 PM
I don't think you ever fold a better hand here. You should never have Qx after x two streets in a 6-way pot when nobody has taken a stab by the turn.

If villain is 3! wide then he should have tons of unpaired hands here and I'd rather bluff catch vs. his considerable air range then try to bluff out something like 99.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
What hand do you have?
At this point, it doesn't matter. I'm coming to the realization the only street I didn't butcher is the flop & I really need to check myself when I feel entitled playing against decent opponents.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 01:35 PM
Your hand absolutely matters lol

What are you talking about
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 02:06 PM
You flat called twice preflop, what weak queens do you show up with? You shouldn't show up with hands worse then QJs very often. You would have bet QT on the turn and shouldn't have called with any worse QX preflop. Sets mostly raise turn on the chance villain is betting a spade draw when they don't bet flop.

A spazz shove might work as a bluff if villain is weaker then you think but if you actually have TX you are probably better off bluff catching. If you have worse then TX then shoving to fold out TX and middle pairs might work but I would still favor checking.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 02:34 PM
I had 64s which should have folded pre, but as I was about to fold UTG said "we're basically pricing you in" so I flatted not to look any nittier than I already must have. Despite showing up with the bottom of my range here, I probably played 2 or 3 hands max in the ~75min I was at the table. I knew CO would flat, so I figured I might as well chip in $60 into what would be a $450 pot with 5 others that have ~$900 behind them. OTT, I figured V could be taking a stab with his entire range. OTR, I figured him having a Q was a bit unlikely. Mentally, I wasn't there. Instead of logically breaking down what V was putting me on, I began to rationalize all the ways I do have a Q here, or can maybe beat 22-99 (save for sets). Now, I just feel bad for making others read this HH as I really should have come to the conclusion myself that this was overly opportunistic at best.

Spoiler:
I shove, V snap calls ATo and I muck. CO comments how he was sure I'd have a Q, V says that's impossible given the way I played, and another decent player at the table tells me it looked like I was FOS.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 03:21 PM
With your hand I would lead turn rather than check and then blast virtually all rivers

I asked for your specific hand bc It's important to know whether we blocked hands he would be going for thin value with (like Tx JJ etc) or his bluffs (Broadway spades)

Since we don't, as played I think I'd prefer to raise turn vs non thinking villains, vs good villains it is hard to rep a Q obv and I suppose this guy snuffed it out. I don't think it's awful at these stakes though bc most villains either aren't thinking about your range or don't have the balls to call it off with a medium strength hand
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 03:29 PM
Your hand looks like a missed draw. I expect a lot of calls on the river
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque
With your hand I would lead turn rather than check and then blast virtually all rivers

I asked for your specific hand bc It's important to know whether we blocked hands he would be going for thin value with (like Tx JJ etc) or his bluffs (Broadway spades)

Since we don't, as played I think I'd prefer to raise turn vs non thinking villains, vs good villains it is hard to rep a Q obv and I suppose this guy snuffed it out. I don't think it's awful at these stakes though bc most villains either aren't thinking about your range or don't have the balls to call it off with a medium strength hand
Thank you for the detailed response. If we lead turn, are we jamming most rivers?
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote
05-28-2017 , 04:37 PM
If we lead turn and are only called by PFR then his hand is face up as 99 Tx JJ or possibly but unlikely a weak queen. It's possible he checked behind QQ or TT on flop but he will raise here on turn almost always with those hands. So once he checks turns we can blast basically all rivers except like a 9TJ with confidence. If he has something like AK or AJss and coolers us with those combos so be it.

If CO or someone before PFR calls then it gets a little trickier because they can certainly have a queen and I'm not really trying to get guys to lay down top pair at this level. That being said, even if a field caller continues here we have a decent amount of equity and can give up if we miss.
5/5 Good river to bluff?  3bet pot, 6way & deep. Quote

      
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